<p>“I like to think that if Gods will is a baby, he will not be thwarted by mere mortals.”</p>
<p>Would you make that argument in any other context than reproduction? For example, if God’s will is that you live a long, productive life, is it impossible for you to thwart that will by driving your car off a cliff or taking a fatal overdose? </p>
<p>God does allow us mere mortals to use our freedom, even when it contravenes his will. Therefore, a man who undergoes a successful vasectomy will not be able to father a child.</p>
<p>^ God, in the guise of the Church, permits Natural Family Planning to space children. A woman who uses artificial birth control for the same reason shares the same goal. That’s not the same as God wanting you to live a long, productive life and you driving your car off a cliff. In that case, you and God have opposite goals.</p>
<p>Thanks for the link, 07DAD. I received a copy of the “Truth and Consequence” booklet at a past Call to Action convention. Very interesting reading!</p>
<p>It is God’s will that people get cancer. I think an insurance company could argue that it is against their religious principles for people to get treatment for it. The Bible “says” that women should feel pain in childbirth. Religious principles should dictate no pain meds in childbirth. Also, people feeling pain is an indication of God’s will, punishment for man’s sins. Who are we to provide insurance to alleviate pain?</p>
<p>To top it off, I died five years ago. Doctors brought me back. As a matter of religion, why should my insurance company have to pay for me to be around now, when I’m supposed to be dead?</p>
<p>Pizzagirl; just so I understand…you firmly believe your right to a service and medication trumps any and all other rights to a deeply held moral belief. There is a hierarchy of ‘rights’ and yours trounces theirs. In addition, the concept of ‘right to service’ is to be understood as free access at any healthcare provider to all services under this category.</p>
<p>As Zooermom so concisely put it
</p>
<p>But…those are those pesky secondary rights anyway so what the big deal. Right?</p>
<p>This whole topic is exactly why insurance shouldn’t be tied to employment. Both sides have legitimate points here and there really aren’t any bad guys. I find the lack of respect for differing points of view disturbing, and I find the religion bashing very sad. It would be so much better if people could purchase the insurance they choose based on their own circumstances.</p>
<p>In a workplace context? Yes, it does. A restaurant cannot refuse to serve, say, a white-black couple just because the restaurant owner thinks that white / black marriage is immoral. The store clerk at Safeway cannot refuse to ring up my ham and bacon because he believes that pork is immoral.</p>
<p>“Pizzagirl; just so I understand…you firmly believe your right to a service and medication trumps any and all other rights to a deeply held moral belief.”</p>
<p>I don’t “believe it”; it’s the law. Legislatures and Congress can carve out exceptions, and do so, but until they do so, as Catholic Supreme Court Justice Scalia notes, the law of the land trumps religious exceptionalism. And I doubt there are many people - of whatever religion - who would want to live in a country where that wasn’t the case.</p>
<p>“My D’s coverage lapsed for a month last year, and the full-pay cost for a month of pills was $120.”</p>
<p>We just had that where my d.'s prescription was inadvertently filled twice. The bill would have been $120. Thankfully, our self-insured Catholic health system - governed by a 30-member Catholic Board, including monsignors, priests, and mass-going, church-supporting Catholics - straightened it out, and paid the bill, advertising all the time that they provide “free” preventive health services (including contraception.) They apparently found no contradiction with their Catholic affiliation and the services they provide, or the doctrine they follow. Perhaps they think of it as abortion prevention.</p>
<p>Aren’t many of the bc pills available generically? Does any insurance let you get brand name medication if generic is available? Sometimes our does and we pay a much higher co-pay. For some drugs, if a generic is available, brand name isn’t covered at all.</p>
<p>“That’s not the same as God wanting you to live a long, productive life and you driving your car off a cliff. In that case, you and God have opposite goals.”</p>
<p>Sure it is. You argue that God will override the laws of nature to achieve his will, by forcing you to conceive a child even though you are using contraception. In that case, you and God have opposite goals – you want sex without a baby, and he wants you to have the baby. </p>
<p>Are you saying that it’s OK to step in front of a speeding freight train, because if God wants you to live he will override the laws of physics to prevent the train from killing you? Or, even worse, it’s OK to push another person in front of the train, because mere mortals can’t thwart God’s will?</p>
<p>My D gets her ‘name brand’ BCPs at no extra cost on our health insurance. I don’t know if God wants her to pay full price or just the $5 co-pay.</p>
<p>Hi claremarie, I think you’re mixing up posts. The sentences you quoted from me referred to my comment that according to Church teaching, God permits Natural Family Planning to space children, and thus (I argued), a woman who uses artificial birth control for the same reason shares the same goal as God. That doesn’t have anything to do with “you want sex without a baby, and he wants you to have the baby.” It’s all moot anyway, as neither you nor I nor the bishops nor the president can pretend to know the mind of God or determine His will. It’s a fun exercise to debate the issue, however!</p>
<p>Oh noooo…I mean…who knows… the next available source of ham might require a bus ride…how obstructionist and unreasonable. Ham for all Everywhere…oh and I need my local grocery store to have a Kosher section with ALL available kosher foods, not just some select subsection. And the lunch bar needs to be prepared Kosher and also follow all Halal rules. Hey, I want this at my local quick mart…why should I have to drive all the way over to the Safeway.</p>
<p>mini
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<p>I think that is fantastic! I think all Catholic hospitals should provide these services (with an appropriate co-pay like all other services). And this patch work system has functioned well for quite sometime. the problem arose when HHS MANDATED these services - copay free no less. Some wizziwig decides to open their mouth and make a big deal out of it …and now we have a problem. Those that have been providing services without problems are put in the limelight and may react by returning to the letter of the law.</p>