<p>But, I would read the riot act to the students - if I was a prof, and I don’t know if this is considered acceptable, I’d call so and so up after class, have maybe six of them standing there and say, “if you value your college education, you are making some terrible mistakes here in MY class. Not handing in assignments, sleeping in MY class, cutting class, will fail you here. I can’t promise that changing these behaviors will cause you to pass but you are heading down a rocky road by engaging in them.” End of story.</p>
<p>Calmom,
When I read your post, I thought it was mine! Were our sons twins separated at birth? </p>
<p>You wrote- “FWIW, my son was a high achiever in high school - that’s how he got into selective colleges – but he had a pattern in college of doing great in courses that interested him, and blowing off the courses that didn’t. In high school he could get by with that attitude - do the bare minimum of required work and still get an A – but in college it didn’t work. In high school he could essentially fake an essay… in college he couldn’t. I trusted him… and I trusted the school. My son’s GPA was ok – he had a tendency to get A’s and D’s, but there were twice as many A’s so it all came out to a B average — but obviously I was not too happy about the D’s.
Like your son, mine was evasive when I asked about grades – he didn’t know, he hadn’t received the grades yet, he had them but didn’t remember, etc.” </p>
<p>Happily, my son now realizes that he can and needs to do well in all classes. This last semester he made all A’s and even had his grades sent home so we could post them on the refridgerator!! Otherwise I would never see his grades; he has to request a mailed copy.</p>
<p>I think I agree with you Backhandgrip. But I would like to have some clue what is being done with my investment. I don’t put $45K down anywhere and not see how it is doing. I don’t think a direct line to the prof is appropriate. There is some middle ground here, and I think it varies from family to family, student to student. For instance, if you have a kid with a terrible track record in academics and commitment and he somehow has an opportunity to go to a very expensive college, you might want to get more feedback than with a trustworthy “A” student. Or if you know the kid has specific health problems or emotional issues, you may want to have a line on those. I am interested in what they are taking each term, and if something doesn’t seem like a wise choice, I will certainly speak up. My husband who was an excellent student nearly did not graduate (and he did with honors) on time because he (a math major!!!) did not count up his credits properly and he was one short. He was able to quickly add a one credit seminar to his schedule, but, you know, I was the one who noticed he was short, not him. And they would not have permitted him to graduate and it would have been an expensive and time consuming thing to undergo had this not been noticed. Yeah, it would have served him right, but sometimes you are not all that interested in your family getting exactly what they deserve. We don’t always get that whether it is in bad or good things. I think if you are spending so much to send them to school, it is not a bad idea to check on some things. The day to day is a whole different story. Unless you go live with them and shadow them, you are not going to know how they are living their lives. But if they do very poorly one term, you might want to know what happened. So that if you have some ideas to improve for the next term, you can get them in motion. Is the problem that the kid just cannot write college level? Is he misplaced in the math hierarchy? Totally unprepared for the major he selected? Is he depressed? Is he partying like a fiend? Is there drug or other substance abuse? Is he sleeping too much? Has he been ill? Well, my son was suffering some pain in the abdomen that he never mentioned to us. Went to the clinic a number of times. The trainer and team doc was well aware of it. He nearly lost his kidney because he did not say anything to us and it was never thoroughly investigated. He was operated on this summer at Memorial Sloan Kettering because the kidney was so enlarged that it was ready to go, and no one could rule out a tumor, or a number of serious problems. Yes, it was his fault he did not tell us. But had I seen that he had repeatedly gone to health services with complaints of this pain, I would have immediately had him checked out more thoroughly. Though he has signed some sort of release of info, the clinic does not routinely send you a running account of the visit there for a pretty good reason. But to me idiopathic, persistent abdominal pain is a flag that they should have told him to go get check out at home instead of just telling him it was nothing. All documented, by the way. </p>
<p>Also this 18 year old adulthood thing is a joke in many ways. Yeah, they can sign up fight and die for their country, but they cannot rent a car in many places, can’t legally drink alcohol, and it is their parent’s finances that dicatate the aid they get from college. It is their parents’ responsibility to pay for their undergrad education until they are age 24. Colleges are pretty danged hypocritical to take this stance and then say the parents are not entitled to get info about what is going on at college. Yes, it is the law, but there are ways to take care of that. They are not at all eager to do that but the bills are sent with regularity to the parent.</p>
<p>I know. And the parental income always figures into the aid calculation until I think the student is 26. It is 26 isn’t it, or is it 24?</p>
<p>So it’s 24 now.</p>
<p>they are considered a dependent student until they are married ( which several students on the board are apparently planning on, I want to tell them stop! stop!, if it is meant to be, you can wait till you are finished with school!), 23 years old, have dependents of their own, armed forces Veteran, orphan or ward of the state till 18. or working on college degree past a BA</p>
<p>Too bad, even though my daughter has taken two years off basically, she won’t be 23 till spring time!</p>
<p>Emeraldkity, mine is one of those students. And, yes, I am saying “stop, stop” to no avail. I just think she is too young and just beginning to blossom into a woman. And to be married that quickly! Funny, I remember last year, telling my CC family about the engagement with a heavy heart. I had just started posting then. The wedding is still on though their plans for the next academic year have hit a snag and they are not sure what they are going to do now. And we will be paying another year of undergrad tuition which we thought was water under the bridge as she was going to graduate this year, but it seems to me her best alternative is to finish her program as stipulated which means going through all 4 years even though she is very upset about this as she has the credits to graduate, and is tired of her college and feels she has outgrown it.</p>
<p>Before son left we asked for grades and I made sure he had his insurance card. I stressed that he needed his insurance card. I forgot to say "call if you go to the ER, and I guess I forgot to say “make sure you give your card to the hospital”. Nothing like getting a “how was your ER visit survey” in the mail. Of course son was in class till 9 pm. Husband felt that we should wait till he saw son to question him. (he had spent the night at home on his way south the day after the visit, so we knew he was ok.) He forgot, playing broomball and Resident director insisted he be checked after he was hit in the neck with a broom. He was just triaged and sent on his way. Son completely forgot about the incident, it wasn’t a significant event. I wish the RD would have had him present his card and asked him to call us. I think he will inform us next time but who knows. Redlands hospital actually has a good billing dept and we only had a $50 copay. But when I read about Jamimom’s son I worried because if son can forget going to ER, what else can he forget. He did present us with a printout of good grades :).</p>
<p>We never did get the bill from the hospital where my son did go to get checked out. He did not present his insurance card. HE got a letter from a law firm that is going after him for payment. Just a threatening letter, no bill. I wrote a letter to the hospital requesting a bill that could be submitted to an insurance company, and for all the ancillary serviced to do the same, and had my son sign it. They won’t though, as they all bill separately. From the wording of the letter, they do not think he has insurance and are looking to squeeze what they can out of him and then refer the rest to the Indigent Fund. Ironically, they did release all test results and some x-rays even though not a dime was paid on the account. He had gone there one evening when the pain was so bad, his roommates were sure he was getting an appendicitus attack. He never said a word to us.</p>
<p>Wow. Scary stories. I am glad I was sure my s. had his new insurance card in his wallet when he headed back to school on Tuesday, not realizing he’d be using it 3 days later.
We also had the opposite “privacy” thing surface just before my S. went to college. He ended up in the hospital for 3 days the week we were supposed to head to college due to a reaction to an antibiotic given when he had his wisdom teeth out (it caused colitis)- Anyway, when it looked like we might not be able to get him to school on time for orientation week, I contacted (with his permission) the liason person at his residential college with the heads up. When it then looked like we’d make it after all, but that he (my s.) would need to take it easy and would still be on meds, I let them know we’d be there, and that my s. would fill them in on the details when he arrived. I wanted to respect his right to take it from there as he was well enough to do so (and was over 18), but needless to say, they asked for further details so that they could be aware of what might be needed should he have any further problems. Being in the healthcare field, I can certainly see both sides of this issue. But in my book, safety comes first. Even though he is legally 18, I still think that it is a transition to autonomy. I am still a caring and concerned parent, and they are a caring and concerned school. Kids at 18 tend to think they are invincible. The thought of serious illness or injury isn’t usually on the forefront of their concerns as they head to college. I value and honor my s’s privacy, but I also value his life.</p>
<p>Jym, I think it is ALWAYS wise to have someone speaking for you and talking to the doctors when you are in the hospital, no matter how old you are. I certainly would want my husband to be there asking questions and overseeing things if I was sick.</p>
<p>Jamimom - I just want to say that I agree with you strongly on one aspect of the 18 year old, “adult” - thing — I think that a person is an adult when they are self-supporting. College kids who are relying on their parents for financial support simply aren’t quite there. </p>
<p>Again - I don’t want the school to report on my kid – I would never dream of calling up a college prof. to talk about anything unless my kid was lying in a hospital physically incapable of making the calls himself. But I do think it was a mistake not to insist with kid #1 that HE show me the grade reports, while I was paying. That’s not an invasion of privacy and it doesn’t involve the college - it’s just a matter of the agreement I have with my kid to finance college, which I am not <em>legally</em> obligated to do no matter what the college financial aid people think. Now that he’s been working for awhile, he plans to go back to college on his own dime… and at that point it is his business, not mine, what his grades are. On the other hand, I have a feeling that if he has to write a check for his tuition out of his hard-earned savings, he won’t be doing andy slacking off.</p>
<p>emeraldkity4 – my son has the same problem as your daughter. He will be turning 22 this year, and if he goes back to college next year, he will have been self supporting, living on his own for 2 years … but he may have a big problem getting financial aid. I think he could swing things on his own savings for 1 year at a public college… but what happens after that, I don’t know. The bottom line is that he is now on his own, but the system won’t acknowledge it.</p>
<p>My “adult child” is now sick as a dog with a virual infection involving both her respiratory and digestive tracts and did not know what a decongestant was. When we spoke the other night, I said you don’t sound well, her response- I think it’s just a little cold but boy am I tired. I ask why don’t you go to student heath, her response- you worry to much. </p>
<p>She calls yesterday to say she is finally going to student health because she isn’t holding anything down but they can’t see her until noon, the same time as her next class. I tell her to e-mail professor explain that you are sick and are going to student health, get you note for documentation if needed. </p>
<p>Calls again after she goes to her student health appointment, the doctor thought she might have mono, took some blood and said he will e-mail her later in the day with the findings. Gave her a perscription for her upset stomach, did not want to prescribe a decongestant because he did not want her to take any thing that would make her extremely sleepy so she would be fine with an over the counter one. Next question, Mom, what’s a decongestant and which one should I get? Now I run down my list of mom questions about fever, pains, last time she ate, or drank anything. </p>
<p>Calls again from the drug store with friend to let me know that she has a virual infrection, why did she have to go to the doctor because there was nothing really that they could do about it because it has to run its course (gosh she trekked to the student health in the rain). Begins reading the boxes to pick something, doesn’t even have a box of tissues in her room. Now I give her a list of other things she should pick up while she is there.</p>
<p>Is it me or do they all run them selves in to the ground sick and then don’t know what to do? (okay I will give a pass to kids of parents in the medical profession). How sick do they have to be for you to know anything?</p>
<p>I understand some points made by parents on this thread, but if someone is 18, it’s their responibilty, they have to grow up sometime. Also where does it end, do you want your kid’s grad school grades, do you want his boss to tell you how he’s doing at work, etc.</p>
<p>prior to the 70s, college dorms had dorm parents, curfews, etc, I think in recognition of the fact that 18 year olds are really not always ready to be completely responsible for themselves. It was really the Vietnam war that changed things to a presumption that kids old enough to fight and die were old enough to live in a dorm without supervision. The drinking and voting age were lowered to 18 at about the same time curfews and dorm parents went out and coed dorms came in. But I think that developmentally, things may have been more appropriate when there was more of a “in locum parentis(sp?)” relationship btwn colleges and students. I know I did some pretty stupid things with the sudden lack of oversight I had at age 18-19. (and glenn, it ended at 21)</p>
<p>“if someone is 18, it’s their responibilty, they have to grow up sometime”</p>
<p>Well, glenn,
That holds true for everything other than paying for college, then you are our child.</p>
<p>It is not a matter of not letting our kids grow up, because they wil have to take responsiblity and accountability for the grades that they get.</p>
<p>Most of us are in agreement that when our kids pay their own $40,000 per year to attend school they could do whatever they want. </p>
<p>If 1989, is any indication of your age, at 16 , all I can say is live on a few more days and you will one day have kids. I wonder if your parents are giving you carte blanche to do whatever you want with their tuition money or would . Would they want to know if you failed out of school and were sent home or placed on probation with no notice? If you had a medical emergency at college do you think they should be the last ot know or maybe find out when the hospital bill comes?</p>
<p>Sybbie, I understand what you’re saying (my point of view is probably because of my age, I’ll admit that). I just think it should be a willing disclosure from someone who is an adult (techinally), also if your kid doesn’t want to share his grades, you may want to examine why, and what can be done to make the realationship better. You bring up cost, of course an important factor, but can you honestly say you wouldn’t care about his grades if your kid was on a free ride? If your kid went to a public HS, you didn’t pay anything, and yet you still likely cared about his grades.
I think there’s a tendency to see 18-20 year olds as kids, when they’re adults (they can vote, can be in the military, etc., but yet there the drinking age is 21, but that’s for a different topic),the sooner they become independent the better. At some point in their life they’re gonna have to sink or swim, if they’re used to indepenence, kids will be able to adjust more to the “real world” and pressure situations they will face in the real world.</p>
<p>glenn - some kids feel that they are ready to be an adult at age 6. Some parents feel that their child still needs parental support or supervision at age 30. I think we’re all discussing a pretty narrow range of ages here here that could/should go one way or the other - it’s really 18-20 year olds who are under discussion.</p>
<p>glenn – part of being an adult is recognizing that you have a responsibility to demonstrate that you have met certain goals or requirements in order to get any sort of financial benefit. It’s called accountability. My clients want to see tangible results of my work before they pay me; the bank wants to see copies of my income tax returns before they will give me a loan. If I do anything at all for money, I know that I may be called upon to provide proof that I held up my end of the bargain.</p>
<p>All I am saying is that IF my kids expect ME (a single, self-employed woman) to PAY for their college, then I want something in return. I pretty much have the right to set any condition I want, since it’s my money. </p>
<p>To expect a parent to pay for everything on the rationale that the parent “owes” the child is in itself a childish attitude. That is - when I was a kid if I ran into a problem with money, I would ask my parents for financial help. When I was an adult, I didn’t ask them - I used my own resources, or went to the bank for a loan. </p>
<p>When my son was in college and I was supporting him, there were a lot of things he wanted to keep from me, and I heard a lot about his “privacy” and my trying to “run his life”. Now that he is an adult supporting himself, he tells me a lot more about his life … the “privacy” concern is pretty much a thing of the past. He’s got nothing to hide from me precisely because he is NOT dependent on me. </p>
<p>I think the problem is that a lot of kids feel a sense of entitlement to have their parents pay for college. I do want to help my kids through college – but I also think that the obligation for me to support them ends when they are 18 and out of high school. Support beyond that point depends on an agreement, not a parental obligation – and a mature young adult will understand the difference.</p>