Core Curriculum

Parent Cafe
61

<p>

This is the first paragraph I quoted in the OP. After three pages, I still think most of us still have more room for agreement than not.</p>

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<p>Garland: In many ways we are discussing semantics. For example, Columbia’s core course on Western Civilization is offered in dozens of sections taught by professors from the following departments:</p>

<p>“Departments of Anthropology, Classics, English and Comparative Literature, French, German, History, Middle East and Asian Languages and Cultures, Philosophy, Political Science, Religion, Slavic Languages, and Sociology”</p>

<p>Is this really a fundamentally different approach than calling those dozens of sections the intro seminar in each of these departments? To the extent that all the sections read exactly the same books, I suppose it’s different. But, I’m not sure the end result is much different. I would be curious if all of these sections are really the same course, or if the professors from the various departments bring their own slant, in effect making these the 101 courses?</p>

<p>You could actually accomplish the same thing with a distribution requirement that includes Philosophy 101, although it would require a large Philosophy department to accomodate several thousand freshmen.</p>

<p>BTW, as a conservative, I have absolutely nothing against a particular college deciding that they wish to offer a core curriculum, or not. It’s a free market and choice is good. My objection is when some self-appointed arbiters decide that every college should not only do so, but should include exactly what they define as a core curriculum.</p>

<p>What about colleges that want an even more rigourous distribution requirement than a core allows? For example, three different science/math courses in at least two different departments and at least one lab course rather than a single general-interest “Introduction to Science” course in a core curriculum? </p>

<p>The closest I would come to endorsing a universal requirement would be a Writing course. But, that is easy enough to arrange/strong-arm on an individual basis, as well.</p>

<p>My own personal opinion is that the topic of cores, distributions, etc. is one of the most over-hyped, least important considerations in choosing a college. When it actually comes down to the brass tacks of putting together 32 semester-courses, almost all of the COFHE schools end up at the same place, regardless of the mechanism.</p>

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<p>

That’s a gross overstatement. I’ll explain why when I come back from my dinner engagement :slight_smile: Although it should be pretty obvious. I mean, we’re talking about your ISI conspiracy theory again, right?</p>

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<p>I like the camaraderie that a common core can bring among the students freshman year, particularly among the different disciplines. At some schools the programs and courses are so divergent that the engineering major will never have the fine arts major in a class. It’s nice when some seminars are required for the taking where the different types can mix.</p>

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<p>Reed doesn’t have intro to science course- so students often quibble about which is the best to take for non majors-
I think they are required to take two classes in same subject so for instance if they pick physics, then two physics courses.
Everything invloves writing as it does in my daughters public high school even math and pe.
Reed doesn’t have freshman english course, hum 110 takes the place of that.
Since with a science major you need to start taking your requirements right away, it doesn’t really leave time for a lot of electives till perhaps senior year. Addtionally one of problems of such a small college is that the class you really want to take in another field conflicts with your lab time, or the class you were waiting for isnt going to be taught next semester because your prof is going on sabbatical.
D for instance has already taken 2 psychology courses as part of her distribution, now she hopes to take another music course to complete her distribution requirements she has left ( music isn’t as time intensive as art)
I think having any distribution req is a good thing, while I know that some schools trust that students will put together a complete package of courses for their major without them, I really don’t like to see students graduate without taking history/art/math/science or anything that isnt’ required for their major. ( which is why I like to see engineering and the like reserved for grad school, but that is another rant)</p>

66

<p>THe books that almost made the cut for the most harmful books of the 19th & 20th centuries</p>

<p>*These books won votes from two or more judges:</p>

<p>The Population Bomb
by Paul Ehrlich
Score: 22</p>

<p>What Is To Be Done
by V.I. Lenin
Score: 20</p>

<p>Authoritarian Personality
by Theodor Adorno
Score: 19</p>

<p>On Liberty
by John Stuart Mill
Score: 18</p>

<p>Beyond Freedom and Dignity
by B.F. Skinner
Score: 18</p>

<p>Reflections on Violence
by Georges Sorel
Score: 18</p>

<p>The Promise of American Life
by Herbert Croly
Score: 17</p>

<p>Origin of the Species
by Charles Darwin
Score: 17</p>

<p>Madness and Civilization
by Michel Foucault
Score: 12</p>

<p>Soviet Communism: A New Civilization
by Sidney and Beatrice Webb
Score: 12</p>

<p>Coming of Age in Samoa
by Margaret Mead
Score: 11</p>

<p>Unsafe at Any Speed
by Ralph Nader
Score: 11</p>

<p>Second Sex
by Simone de Beauvoir
Score: 10</p>

<p>Prison Notebooks
by Antonio Gramsci
Score: 10</p>

<p>Silent Spring
by Rachel Carson
Score: 9</p>

<p>Wretched of the Earth
by Frantz Fanon
Score: 9</p>

<p>Introduction to Psychoanalysis
by Sigmund Freud
Score: 9</p>

<p>The Greening of America
by Charles Reich
Score: 9</p>

<p>The Limits to Growth
by Club of Rome
Score: 4</p>

<p>Descent of Man
by Charles Darwin
Score: 2*</p>

67

<p>What a great first-year core seminar that would make, regardless of your political opinion! I can’t see how you could come out of such a seminar without being a strong critical thinker (provided you did it by choice.)</p>

68

<p>I hope they do a movie list :)</p>

69

<p>Is it just me; am I pre-alzheimers? I studied a great deal of what would be considered core curriculum and I remember very few testable facts! I swear, I used to know a whole bunch! But it appears that I have deleted a lot of files over the years :eek: and most of them are the files of classes I took voluntarily to “broaden myself” not the ones I took because of passionate interest in the subject.</p>

<p>Happily I also learned how to think, reason, analyze, write, & research. I learned how to follow a nagging question over hill and dale and make discoveries. I learned how to go <strong>deep</strong> into specific areas of passion (something that may be a bit easier to do in open than core, like spending a whole year on “Paradise Lost,” or two years on Shakespeare’s plays, or a year on the Bill of Rights and the Supreme Court.) All those classes, I remember very well! </p>

<p>And I REALLY remember my thesis topic, which was not only self chosen but self taught. Hmmmm. A pattern emerges.</p>

<p>Maybe this is why I am not hung up on what curriculum my kids choose (core vs open) nor what major they choose (couldn’t care less.) I just want them studying from passion in a rigorous, writing-intensive program where they feel connected, inspired, challenged.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>My understanding is that this is not at all true. The courses are very much based on the texts–I really don’t see how you could turn them into 101 courses. I understand also that the instructors go through a lot of training concerning how to approach this class, and meet frequently. They can’t just do whatever they want with it. I have no idea what area of speciality his Lit Hum instructor has–it just never came up. I assume that CC will be similar.</p>

<p>They actually do require three science courses, one which is a series of once a week lectures by leaders in various fields (Nobel Prize types) coupled with twice weekly meetings in small groups to discuss and work with the topic. Then any two-semester science sequence from a very long list (S is doing AStro next year).</p>

<p>they also have a required writing class, plus Art Humanities and Music Humaanities (Mini’s younger D would like the latter!)</p>

<p>Plus two phys eds and that swim test I mentioned before.</p>

<p>Look, it’s not for everyone–but there’s no reason to trivialize it, either. I mean, I wouldn’t personally choose St. Johns, but I applaud the students who go there, too.</p>

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<p>Okay, I looked at the Dartmouth review and took my stab at it.</p>

<p>=======</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. What famous brothers founded Rome?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Orville and Wilbur. They figured a stable political entity would allow for the development of airport baggage handling systems and, ultimately, powered flight.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. What does quod erat demonstrandum (Q.E.D.) mean?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. “The students are demonstrating in the Quad.”</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Name five US Supreme Court justices.</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Oliver Sherlock Holmes, Judge Judy, Judge Crater, Roy Bean, and Oprah.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. What English king signed the Magna Carta?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. John Plantagenet…the Magna Carta was the first credit card and he didn’t leave his castle without it. He signed at 12:15 in the clubhouse, he had a 12:30 tee time. (The British have always revered tee time).</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Who painted The Birth of Venus in 1482?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Larry Flynt, publisher and pervert, who lived next door in 1484.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Q. Name one of the three authors of The Federalist Papers.</p>

<p>A. Rupert Murdoch, Howard Stern, Dan Rather</p></li>
<li><p>Q. Who was Dante’s guide through Hell?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>A. Bruce Springsteen, patron saint of New Jersey</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Name one of the two men who invented calculus:</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Vinny the Bookmaker and Hermes Trismegistus.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Q. What is the dominant sect of Islam in Iran?
A. Males are the dominant sex.</p></li>
<li><p>Q. What famous battle occurred in October of 1066 AD?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>A. The battle between Mr. and Mrs. Thorndalfsson as to whose parents they would visit for Thanksgiving. This battle lasted for 123 years, continuing even after both parties had died…neighbors just assumed they weren’t speaking to each other.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Who wrote the “1812 Overture”?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Napoleon. Who also wrote the “1815 Underture” and the “1822 Armature.”</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. What Shakespearean character demanded a “pound of flesh” to repay a debt?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Ezra Pound.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Where is Michelangelo’s Creation of Adam located?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Right next to the Hard Rock Café in the Vatican.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Which President’s pet project was building the Panama Canal?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Theodore Roosevelt. His bathtub wasn’t big enough for his battleships.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Who wrote “A Modest Proposal”?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Donald Trump.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Who composed the symphony with a movement known as “Ode to Joy?”</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Joy’s lover.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. What woman was the cause of the Trojan War?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Helen, when a city in Asia Minor ran out of condoms.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. What is the major third party in British politics? </li>
</ol>

<p>A. The Silly Party</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Name three of the twelve apostles:</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Sleepy, Dopey, Grumpy, Doc, Donner, Blitzen, Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Rudolph, Obi-Wan, Yoda</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Who wrote Democracy in America?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Molly Ivins. Democracy didn’t write back.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Which four US Presidents were assassinated?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Clinton (Whitewater), Carter (lusting in his heart), Polk (the Missouri compromising position), and Fillmore (funny-looking clothes)</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Who wrote Don Quixote?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Miguel Cerveza, brewer, and Sancho Panzer, German armored innovator</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Name three freedoms guaranteed in the First Amendment to the Constitution.</li>
</ol>

<p>A. B!tching, Farting, Drinking Beer, Pursuit of the Opposite Sex.
(Proposed Amendment substitutes “Desired” for “Opposite.”)</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Who wrote “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock”?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. J Alfred Prufrocks’s mother, who was kind of pushy and wanted to see him married to a nice girl and fast.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Who wrote Faust?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Mrs. Faust, wondering when the heck he was going to come home and, don’t forget, pick up a quart of milk.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Who wrote The Brothers Karamazov?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Britney Spears, asking if, you know, they’d be interested in a group thing.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Who invented the printing press?</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Wu Fang Lin, thrifty owner of a Chinese laundry, who needed printed tickees to issue for washee. He made use of his press which was just lying around unused between loads of shirts.</p>

<ol>
<li>Q. Name the five Great Lakes:</li>
</ol>

<p>A. Woebegone, Mono, Strep, Fondu, Langerhans</p>

72

<p>Perfect!!! :D</p>

73

<p>I got most of them right, but I thought #18 was the Party of the Silly Walks.</p>

74

<p>Damn. You’re right. I guess I missed one. <hangs head.=“”> Shoulda done a prep course.</hangs></p>

75

<p>Silly Walks is a Ministry, not a political party. You guys really do need core curriculum.</p>

76

<p>I’m in favor of distribution requirements but less so of core curriculums. </p>

<p>I’m a literary and arts conservative and believe that EVERYONE should take a course in Shakespeare’s plays and Italian Renaissance art. I’m not keen on trumped up PC courses like “Feminists Playwrights of the 15/16th Century or “Black/Hispanic Renaissance Artists.” I say stick to Shakespeare and the dead white Italians. I also read the Bible as literature and agree that it’s impossible to understand Western art and literature without a firm grounding in the Greek classics and Christianity.</p>

<p>Having said that I have spent my career interacting with Asia and I can tell you that Tom Friedman is right, the world is definitely getting flatter. The two core examples that Driver lists in post #7 which while profoundly appealing to me personally are way, way too Western-centric. Where’s Asia, where’s South America, where’s Africa? To cut the rest of the world out of the core equation is to me, taking a giant step backwards into the 19/20th Century. If you graduate from college without learning the five basics tenets of Islam or the basis of the Chinese Cutural Revolution, then you should go not pass Go.</p>

<p>One of the Adcoms at Wesleyan said something at their information session that really impressed me: “It is increasingly difficult to make a case that there is a static body of information.” That’s why I lean toward a distribution requirement that forces everyone to take a smattering of courses outside their comfort level. Williams (and I’m sure other schools) require everyone to take a handful of courses in each of three very loosely defined disciplines: The arts, social sciences, science/math. The also require a quantitative reasoning course in which the method of communication is not verbal and a course that explores other cultures. The choices in each of these categories are wide and deep and can be personalized toward areas of interest. </p>

<p>Now that my son is half way through a four year college career I am shocked to realize that there’s no way that he will get to even a fraction of the courses that he’s interested in – both inside and outside of his major. He could keep going for another ten years! For that reason, I’m mixed on the language issue. I’m fully in favor of all Americans learning another language; however, I think kids need to do this during high school not college, as basic language study (for a kid who is not so inclined) can eat up too much of the available time slots.</p>

<p>I guess the secret here is to instill a love for lifelong learning. I have a driver now and a long commute and I can say that I’ve read more in the last 10 years than I have in my whole life combined. The frustration (a positive one) is that the world keeps getting flatter and both more accessible and more complex so that my reading list just stretches out to the horizon.</p>

<p>My conclusion is that you’re just not going to get to it all during your formal education so keep on reading, keep on traveling, and most importantly seek out interesting friends.</p>

77

<p>even with a driver how can you read in the car? I get seasick
Hear of books on tape? it has saved many a long car trip, when we were stuck in the pass a few years ago at xmas, I was glad we had the latest harrypotter even though I have grown to loathe Jim Dales charaterizations, better I had started on the Stephen Frears version.
I have also heard several people recommend
<a href=“The Great Courses”>The Great Courses;
I prefer music still or Cartalk</p>

78

<p>I’m ambivalent about language requirements. Not about the idea of learning a foreign language, but rather, whether $40k a year is a reasonable price for basic language instruction. It seems to me that learning to speak a foreign language can be done more cost effectively AND can best (perhaps only?) be accomplished with language immersion in a country where the language is spoken.</p>

<p>For that reason, I’m OK with the current practice of allowing four years of high school language to satisfy the language requirement.</p>

79

<p>of course our state doesn’t have high school language required for graduation so districts are not obligated to offer 4 years of language if indeed they offer it at all.
My daughter is planning on taking 4 years of language but to do so she has to fulfill some of her graduation classes through waviers, using a school sport for PE credit, hopefully using her volunteer job in some way for vocational ed credit and taking health probably online through BYU. OUr state only funds 5 classes each year for high school students.
Since PE and health requirements total 2 credits(or 2 years),vocational ed classes total 1.5 credits that only leaves 16.5 credits or a little more than 4 each year to get their English, history, math and science in, not really room for foriegn language, the arts or any other electives.
So you can see why students with transportation often take classes at community college because in one quarter you could get a year worth of high school credit.</p>

80

<p>We were lucky. Here in Mass, my D was able to take four years of Spanish and two years of Russian. I can’t remember for sure, but I think she probably started the Spanish in Junior High. She also did a conversational Spanish class at the local community college one summer.</p>