You have nice stats. You will need about $40,000 in merit aid to make CWRU work for you.
Pitt has some good, but very competitive scholarships. Apply there early.
Why not just apply regular decision to Cornell? It can be your one reach school.
Would going to Stony Brook and getting a 4.0 look better than getting a 3.6-3.7 at Cornell. Which will prepare me better for the MCAT? Would I still be competitive for the top tier medical schools if I went to Stony Brook?
@WayOutWestMom could you comment about medical,school admissions?
@row566 medical school admissions depend largely on your GPA and MCAT score. Truthfully, the medical school you attend isn’t as important as your residency site, in my opinion.
Stonybrook is a fine university which is somewhat undervalued in NY State but appreciated much more elsewhere. You cannot predict your GPA right now. Cannot. So don’t even try. You need to find a U with a comprehensive range of courses which will prepare you to apply to med school and meet your other educational needs which is within budget.
If it were easy to get a 4.0 everyone would do it.
As a NY resident, if you were to go to a land grant schools your tuition would be 34K instead of 51K. Not sure if it matters if your parents are only willing to pay 16K.
Half this thread is a red herring. Wall Street and the dad’s opinion on <HYPS schools are irrelevant except for the part where dad gave the budget. Poster just needs to run NPCs at schools (that are good enough for him) until he finds one that generates an EFC near enough to 16k. Then apply for a lot of scholarships, and possibly rethink the loan stance.
If Pitt will offer “ALOT of money” for decent stats then go ask them how much you’ll get from them.
Did anyone ask if that 16k was how much tuition dad will pay for, or how much total he will pay? Because if its total then that’s pretty much expecting free tuition.
@oldfort is that $34,000 just tuition? Because if so…this student would need to add the room and board, and fees costs to that amount. More than $16,000
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Even after retirement, my parents will still have to pay for him. Will this matter to financial aid officers? I
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AGAIN…what costs are covered by INSURANCE and from disability payments??? If your parents haven’t applied for disability payments for your sibling, then they should. He could be getting several hundred a month, maybe more, if permanently disabled.
Is your sibling getting disability payments? If so, that will count. If not, then ask your parents to look into that.
It would be unusual for your sibling to have $60k per year in necessary and uncovered expenses…because think about it…how would a family who makes $80k per year pay those bills EVERY year.
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@mom2collegekids The SAT is probably my weakest score. I should have taken the ACT, where I got a 31 on my diagnostic.
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What do you mean by that??? Your SAT is higher than an ACT 31. But, go ahead and retest with both.
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Im pretty sure I can handle myself at any school for pre med. <<<
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Believe me, you have no idea what you’re talking about in this regard. There are a few of us here on CC that know a good bit about the premed process, and the med school app process. Seriously, you have no idea.
With your stats, if you went to an Ivy or similar top school as a premed, I can almost bet that you would end up being weeded out. Your premed classmates would be students with ACT 35-36 and perfect/near perfect SATs…who were Vals and Sals of their schools.
Sigh.
No. Med school admissions really doesn’t work that way. GPA is only part of the overall picture. And once you meet the school’s GPA cutoff, it really doesn’t matter whole lot which undergrad you attended.
At most medical schools, the first round of applicant screening is done by a computer program. Your application has to get past that screen to even get looked at by a pair of human eyes. Med school adcomms aren’t going to automatically bump up your GPA just because you graduated from Cornell. Or downgrade your GPA because it’s from Stonybrook.
You may get a tiny bump (0.05) added to your GPA at a few med schools if the individual adcomm reader of your application has a first hand familiarity with Cornell’s grading policies. Obviously that’s something you can’t count on, and is, in fact, foolish to count on.
A 3.6 GPA (even if it is from Cornell) is going to disadvantage you in med school admissions since the current average GPA for admitted med students is 3.7.
Your undergrad doesn’t prepare you for the MCAT. You prepare yourself for the MCAT.
Even Harvard students complain that their undergrad doesn’t prepare them for MCAT–
[Premeds in Search of MCAT Prep Say Harvard Classes Provide Insufficient Instruction](Premeds in Search of MCAT Prep Say Harvard Classes Provide Insufficient Instruction | News | The Harvard Crimson)
If you have all the factors in place: top GPA, top MCAT score, outstanding LOEs, exceptional ECs, research w/publications, outstanding & unique leadership roles, strong interpersonal & communication skills, good “fit” for the specific school, etc–it’s certainly possible. But not a guarantee, since med school admission–to any med school–is extremely competitive for everyone.
(Last year only ~38-40% of med school applicants received an acceptance.)
And as a FYI, the name of the med school you attend is far, far less important than where you do your residency training. And where you match for residency training for far, far more dependent on your med school achievements (class rank, AOA, clinical grades, MSPE, USMLE scores, LOEs, research, “soft skills” and program “fit”) than what medical school you graduate from.
See what residency program directors look for in applicants–
[Results of the 2014 NRMP Program Director Survey](http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PD-Survey-Report-2014.pdf)
@WayOutWestMom Thank you, you were actually helpful.
Your parents aren’t being realistic about affording any college on $16k without loans. I was that parent, didn’t want my kids to have loans, wanted them to pick colleges they could afford with just merit aid and my contribution. Alas, things don’t always work out that way. They have taken out loans, although less than the maximum. The world did not end with them taking the loans.
You need to look at all the options, the NY state ones, the merit ones, and then Cornell. I really doubt you’ll get everything you need to go to Cornell even with the loans and $16k from your parents, but see where your research leads you and be prepared to go somewhere else.
Coaches at a lot of schools are the highest paid state employee. There aren’t a lot of people standing on principle and not going to UCLA, Cal, or Michigan because the football coaches make too much money. You may not want to go to Alabama, but it may be the best deal for you. If the option is Alabama or nothing (you might not find any school you can go to for $16k), would you take ‘nothing’?
You seem to be arguing with the responders here, but they are just telling you their experiences. You might not be able to convince your father that Cornell is as good at HYPSM, but the group experience is that people do get jobs out of other schools. You have to deal with your father, and it might cost you opportunities because he’s only willing to pay for the best (and the reality is that you may not get in to those schools). Our group experience is that often loans are necessary. Our experience is that families with incomes above $200k do not normally get need based financial aid. You asked, those were the answers.
CCers really cannot read. I never said people from other schools can’t get jobs, so just ignore what I said about that because you guys obviously do not understand what I am trying to say.
Your original question -
Very unlikely, and I’m not sure Cornell makes a distinction between ‘grant money’ and need based financial aid; you’d still need to be found ‘in need’ to receive the financial aid. We can’t answer without knowing what the $60k in cost is for your sibling - unmet medical costs, school, training, home help? What is the age of the sibling? Even if it is $60k directly OOP and none of it is recoverable on taxes, you still have a very high family income of almost $200k, so use the NPC and see what that will provide after taking the best possible view of your situation - $250k less $60k for sibling, with a family size of 5 (6? unclear if special needs sibling is one of the two who needs to go to college after you), with one student in college. What is the NPC telling you after looking at all the assets and income in the light most favorable to you? Do your parents have other assets, like a second home or savings not in a retirement account? The NPC may say you’ll get something, but ‘something’ + $16k is unlikely to get you enough for Cornell.
I agree with your parents about going where you get the merit. $16K will cover room/board and other expenses. IF you want to get into med school you will pay attention to what @mom2collegekids says - her own son is a 4th year med school student and she has helped numerous students/parents understand the process for US med schools.
Drinking the Kool-aid on how wonderful some of the exclusive UG schools will not hit your LT goal. Your parents understand this.
Save the school loans for med school - if you are smart enough to navigate this first hurdle of getting to a school which you can afford (based on your parents guidelines). There is a lot to doing well in UG, and doing many things right to compete against students wanting to get into medical school.
And being critical of how Coach Saban at UA’s salary is out of line - it absolutely is not. The economic impact for the State and for UA is very positive (UA is one of the few div I programs with positive cash flow and provides millions in academic scholarships and improvements to university facilities, including alum who also contribute heavily).
UA is the fastest growing flagship in the US for many reasons. If you visited, you might understand.
Many OOS students come w/o scholarships, and many come with scholarships - more OOS freshman than in-state – in part because there are other Universities in the state that are more affordable for some students.
“I don’t want to go so far from home”. Ha, what a reason. Is that going to be a limiting factor for med school?
Somehow you may not think there is a pool of high stat students at UA, or the honor programs to be a key factor for students coming. Again, ha.
DD has the Presidential Scholarship (full tuition) and $2500/year engineering (and also band scholarship and is in Million Dollar Band - this is her third year). She is in the STEM MBA honors program. She has completed two engineering internships and is a junior. One extra academic year will have her complete with MBA. No one can guarantee the EC would work out so well for DD, but participating/traveling to two successful SEC Championships for UA, two post-season Bowl games - being in top 4 teams both years, and a National Championship win…and we have two more years to go. It definitely makes the fall semester full of excitement. Oh, she works hard - has close to 18 hours this term, one humanity, her STEM MBA course, and the rest upper division engineering.
Parents at UA network too. Getting to be like ND, TAMU on having alum or parents located across the country.
I do understand how Wall Street connections may work for Wall St. But that isn’t the direction you are going. And being a TAMU alum, I know they have some Wall Street connections too.
However exclusive law firms look to the top students from top programs across the country. Important to be in the top 10% in a fairly top law program (oh, and UA’s law school is also well rated).
Nephew and another from his well rated law school (they are both #1 and #2 in the class) have just interned in a top 3 global law firm in NY before their 3rd year of law school - and if they want to work there, they will have a job.
Bright students can make their opportunities at a number of schools. Being smart about the $$ can help you a lot.
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Would I still be competitive for the top tier medical schools if I went to Stony Brook?
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first of all…ALL US allopathic med schools are excellent. We don’t have any “so so” med schools here. Getting into ANY of them is an honor since half of the nationwide applicants don’t get in anywhere.
If you excel at Stony (or anywhere), get a high MCAT scores, and have the requisite medically-related ECs, then you potentially could get into a top med school after attending Stony.
Do you plan on going into academic medicine? If not, what is your interest in top tier SOMs? In your opinion, what is a top tier SOM?
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@WayOutWestMom Thank you, you were actually helpful
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Yes, WOWMom is very helpful. Your comment naively suggests that you don’t realize that the comments were ALSO helpful.
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I'm not really interested in the University of Alabama, just because it is pretty far away and any school that has their football coach as the highest paid state employee is not for me.
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Well that would eliminate a whole bunch of schools…probably even schools like UCLA…would you say that UCLA isn’t “for you”? What about UMich?
Bama could pay Saban twice his salary and he still would more than earn his salary in what his program brings INTO the university in positive cash flow. Saban is a license to print money. Other schools are drooling to have someone like him who brings in sooooo much money to the school.
just in case you have an open enough mind to look at this information:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrV8g7kxJps This is how UA shaped itself in STEM and University improvements over the last 15 years…
UA has updated its Quick Facts http://viewbook.ua.edu/quick-facts/
(2014 enrollment breakdown by state - new undergraduates - which would be freshmen for the most part): http://oira.ua.edu/d/webreports/enrollment2/Fall_2014/f18.html
http://oira.ua.edu/d/webreports/enrollment2/Fall_2015/e10.html
This URL gives FALL 2015 data for all of the university (not just freshmen).
You came on here asking US questions. You don’t want to hear the answers (maybe because you want to hear what you want to hear), AND you won’t answer critical questions…like what is the $60k per year being spent on …and is any of it covered by insurance…and is your brother receiving disability?
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Pitt does on site admissions at my school, where you talk with the admissions officer, and they offer you ALOT of money if your stats are decent.
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This isn’t really true. UPitt’s merit is not only unpredictable, but likely you’d need higher stats to get a decent award. UPitt’s OOS cost is nearly $50k per year. You’d be very lucky to get maybe $10-20k per year. How would you pay the rest???
UPitt does NOT give a LOT of merit for “decent” stats. That is wrong.
Is the $250 per year your dad’s base salary? Does he get bonuses?
@row566 It is beyond unlikely that you will be awarded need-based institutional aid or grants bringing costs down $16,000. The sooner you accept that financial reality, the sooner you can create an application plan that leaves you with options in the spring.
You have a 1430 CR+M. With those scores it is possible to get enough merit scholarships at lower ranked schools to get your college costs down to $16,000/yr (that is the approx cost of room, board, books.) The universities/colleges might not be ones you initially want to consider, but they are still solid academic options. Many of them have elite honors programs filled with top performing kids.
You aren’t the first, or the last, kid whose college budget is extremely limited and the budget dashes the dreams of an elite university. Your future, like theirs, is wide open to the opportunities you pursue while an UG at whatever school you attend. You can define your UG experience, and what you accomplish as UG can open the doors you want. The school name does not have to do it for you.
Fwiw, I know it is possible bc it is the approach my own kids with a disabled adult brother, a lot of siblings, and parents who say “the budget is what it is” have to deal with. With the exception of our disabled adult, every one of our older kids has been able to successfully pursue the degrees/careers they have wanted. We have a high school sr on the merit hunt. She will have great options come spring bc she is applying wisely.
Basically you have 2 options. You can shift it into gear and start researching and applying now bc many competitive scholarships have Oct 15/Nov 1 deadlines. Or you can hope that your circumstances change and lose out on those opportunities bc you don’t apply.
Fwiw, researching schools and likelihood of awards will improve your outcomes come spring. You mentioned the University of Pittsburg. Have you spent time on their admissions page? Your stats don’t put you in the “guaranteed throwing large amounts of merit money” at you category. Keep the information below in mind bc it shows just how strong some students are at these schools and how competitive some scholarships and programs are and that competition is national.
You turned your nose up at Alabama, but their scholarship $$ is guaranteed and they have some great programs. I would suggest applying to some guaranteed scholarship schools if you want to ensure affordable options to choose amg.
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You turned your nose up at Alabama, but their scholarship $$ is guaranteed and they have some great programs. I would suggest applying to some guaranteed scholarship schools if you want to ensure affordable options to choose amg.
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Agreed! This student, at a minimum needs to apply to Alabama before the Dec deadline for their huge merit. This can be a safety.
I think this student misunderstand Alabama based on a coach’s salary. Maybe he assumes that a school that is spending that much on a coach isn’t spending much on academics, classrooms, labs, etc.
It may interest this student to know that Bama has built over 45 new academic buildings in the last 10 years. That includes a 1 million square foot new Science and Engineering Complex…beautiful and state of the art. The campus is drop-dead gorgeous, and the previously existing buildings have been updated and remodeled so that they have the latest in technology. The dorms are very nice, including the “super suites” which are private bedrooms within 4 bedroom “apartments” with living rooms and kitchenettes.
Alabama isn’t some backward school…not at all.