<p>That’s it. I’m going to bake cookies for my S’s World Lit teacher. No multiple choice questions from him! They have had an incredible semester - 2 field trips, endless discussions, remarkable book list, creative and insightful writing assignments. My S is not fond of reading, but he has completely read every book, even the Zen book, thought deeply, and learned something from each about life. Amazing.</p>
<p>D. I was among the 7 percent of the people who took the AP Lit in 2007 and scored a 5.</p>
<p>I bet I got it wrong :3</p>
<p>^ ^ </p>
<p>IB Wl?</p>
<p>WHAT? Utter bullocks!</p>
<p>Frankly, all of the answers are terrible, but I ultimately settled with D:
</p>
<p>Whoa- flash back to yet another reason that S hated high school.<br>
He did not get points for answering (like rocket man), ‘…why do you persist in asking us stupid questions?’</p>
<p>Fast forward: he is enjoying his seminar classes in university. They read, discuss the book/poem/whatever at length, and are graded entirely on essays (and class participation). No exams.</p>
<p>BTW, my answer would be none of the above. I think that the main idea involves the uncertainty and/or the unfairness of death.<br>
But, what do I know?</p>
<p>B and D are both better than C.</p>
<p>I chose “C”. It’s the only one supported directly by the sonnet. The sonnet never mentioned anything about a “soul”; you people that chose “D” just inferred the word “soul” from the last 2 lines. “A” is not supported since it only mentioned a few causes of death (but not all) so it does not support “everyone dies”. “B” is not supported either; death is being criticized without regards to fear of it.</p>
<p>Furthermore, the whole poem ties into fate. It is saying “why are you proud when people can die in so many different ways (e.g. poppies, poison, war, etc.)? That is fate’s work not death’s.”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Absolutely!! IMO “C” is the least likely answer.</p>
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<p>Maybe, or maybe the questions in college will be multiple choice - for main idea in a Donne poem, think about the inanity of that for a minute! - and just as stupid.</p>
<p>Of course now if all the points in a literature class come from essays on the “meaning” of a passage, or even how well the student defends his interpretation of the meaning in his essay - that’s a pretty subjective method of grading as well (also a lot of work and creative thinking which is probably why so many teachers don’t do it).
I loved literature, and I played the game well so I liked the class - but I always thought it was insane in a way, and really penalized the creative thinkers outside the box.</p>
<p>I was also pretty good in my English classes in HS. I was always amused, though, when the teacher would read something of mine outloud, then proceed to explain to the class all the symbolism and hidden meanings I had included - which was news to me.</p>
<p>I do think the value of “good” literature is that it is often meaningful to readers in different ways (regardless of what the writer intended). And that the fastest way to suck life out of lit is to insist that it means only one thing.</p>
<p>
I also don’t know about that. I went to a pretty good college, and took a Shakespeare course. The TA went on and on about the Christian symbolism in the play, Much Ado about Nothing. I asked him, “Suppose Shakespeare really meant his title?” Blank stare. “Suppose he really wrote a play that was about nothing? No symbolism, just a simple, fun plot?” (This was before Seinfeld.) Silence for about 20 seconds, then he went on as if no one had said anything.</p>
<p>
I always pictured the great playwrights of Theater of the Absurd, like Ionesco and Pinter, standing the back of the theater laughing as people tried to uncover the “hidden meaning and truths” of their plays!</p>
<p>
I used to get so frustrated with English teachers that would tell us to write about what we ‘thought and feel’ about a certain passage/poem/book to then only have points deducted from my paper because I’m told that my feelings about the passage were “incorrect.” When I asked how an opinion can be “incorrect” I usually just got a blank stare. </p>
<p>I eventually learned that the way to get a good grade was not to follow the directions and write about my own thoughts on a passage, but to just write a bunch of BS that the prof wanted to hear. So much for an “education.” 
</p>
<p>I must say that I do enjoy a good book, but the English/literature portion of my education is probably more responsible for turning me off it all than turning me on.</p>
<p>“I’d argue that the answer that is surely wrong is “C” (teacher’s favorite). The testing question asked for the “main idea.” C is clearly a sub-idea.”</p>
<p>I strongly agree.</p>
<p>The answer IS D. That is the correct answer. I haven’t been in college for many years now, but I was an English major and we studied John Donne thoroughly and I have always loved his work.</p>
<p>Okay–maybe not universal. but I teach college English, and I sure don’t give out multiple choice tests, nor do any profs I know, nor did my kids run into them in college, either. Everyone I know in English classes writes essays–where they present an idea and use evidence to support it. This was the point I was making.</p>
<p>If your kids are getting a different kind of college English, share the locations so we can all avoid them.</p>
<p>Chedva–Shakespeare, Pinter, Ionesco et al can’t stand beside each of us to say whether they “meant” a meaning or not. If a case can be made (for instance–your assertion that Shakespeare meant it to be really about nothing; the TA’s that it’s full of Christian symbolism) then the argument stands on evidence from the play. </p>
<p>In the case of this poem, I think any thoughtful interpretation goes past the surface level answer the teacher wanted, toward Donne’s celebration of the triumph over death.</p>
<p>
Understood and agreed. But unfortunately, at least in my experience (and I stopped taking literature courses because of it!), that doesn’t happen often. Too many times, I’ve seen only one interpretation accepted as “true.”</p>
<p>I never ever had a multiple choice English test in high school. My favorite English teacher commented on my ability to argue vociferously for interpretations that she thought were all wrong, but producing so much evidence she had to give me good grades anyway.</p>
<p>I can see that I’m in a very small minority, but I chose “C”. In most of the poem, the author is taunting death, admonishing “him” not to take credit for most deaths, which are caused by the actions of people or random events. Although the words, “Thou are slave to fate” appears only once, I see most of the lines as supporting that theme. The idea of the temporary nature of death is not introduced until the last two lines.</p>
<p>I do have a Ph.D., but it’s in physics.</p>
<p>I would respectfully disagree. The “slave to fate” idea is, to me, just one small part of one line presenting various subsidiary reasons why death shouldn’t be swollen with pride, along with death’s being a slave to chance, kings, and desperate men.</p>
<p>And it may be that the idea of the temporary nature of death is stated expressly only in the last two lines, but it’s certainly strongly implied in the earlier lines “For those whom thou thinkst thou dost overthrow/ Die not, poor death, nor yet canst thou kill me.” Not to mention the reference to “soul’s delivery.”</p>
<p>I wasn’t even an English major in college (history, for me), but I’ve loved Donne’s poetry since high school.</p>
<p>Donna</p>
<p>Remember, the kids didn’t have the sonnet in front of them for this test. They had studied it in class, along with a couple of other sonnets, and were basing their answers on their recollections of reading the poem and the notes they took during the class discussion.</p>
<p>I still think the decision to give everyone 2 points (it was a 5 point question) is wrong. If she agreed that D was also a correct answer, then the kids who put D should also get 5 points restored. And it seems clear to me that a cogent argument for D can be made. I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who thinks so! And I love the intellectual discussion of classic literature - I knew CCers would sink their teeth into this.</p>