Crazy! Retired 71yo cop kills a moviegoer over TEXTING!

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<p>The incident to some extent reminded me of a scene from an old martial arts flick where an overbearing European military officer who acted highlandedly and brutally towards the local Chinese population sometime in the late 19th/early 20th century was leading an attack against a village/town for an imagined slight with a small guard of troops and foolhardy overconfidence(He didn’t think highly of the Chinese martial prowess). (Movie takes place sometime in the heyday of European colonialism and spheres of influence)</p>

<p>Once his small guard of troops were dispatched by the defending villagers, he ended up being confronted by two villagers who proceeded to knock him off his horse, laughed at how his once splendid dress uniform is now soiled, seized his officer’s saber, proceeded to bend it into a pretzel like shape, and contemptuously hand it back to him to complete the insult. </p>

<p>There seems again to be an overabundance of speculation, overgeneralization, making assumptions and opining about things not yet in evidence, but presented as if they were fact. Do we know how the conversation between the two began? Is it possible (even if unlikely) that Reeves initially asked Oulson politely to stop texting/turn off his phone and Oulson smarted back at him in a snotty tone when he said he was checking on his daughter? At one point it was stated, IIRC, that Oulson said he was “texting his f<em>**king daughter” and “stay the h</em>*l outta my face” . I believe that was from the interview after the shooting". If they had spoken to each other poilitely the whole situation could have been avoided.</p>

<p>The smart thing to do would have been to AVOID conflict, not to engage in it. So, regardless of whether Reeves was overly annoyed by someone texting during previews, whether or not we think it was reasonable, or Oulson was overly confrontational in his refusal to stop texting or unwillingness to offer to step outside, or unwillingness to apologize with an explanation of why he was texting, they are both to blame for allowing the situation to escalate. Gee, since both are navy vets, should we assume or generalize that navy vets have temper problems or are jerks? Um, no. And not everyone with a temper issue is some overbearing, busybody, bully with an authoritarian complex. That is geting stale.</p>

<p>Perhaps the point of all this is that not only should people learn to be a little more considerate of each other and respond in a respectful manner, but also that one shouldnt make assumptions. Not sure it matters a lot whether the guy was texting is ill daughter or ordering something on Amazon, if Reeves was that terribly bothered, even excessively bothered by the texting (even if we all think its ridiculous), Oulson could have stepped outside or even to the aisle of the theater to complete his text. Equally, Reeves could have perhaps tolerated the text until it was completed in light of the fact that it was to check on Oulson’s ill daughter. Regardless, instead of either being conciliatory and considerate of the other’s request, they engaged in an escalating confrontation. BOTH were wrong, and it seems, at least from the information currently available, that after Reeves went out to find a manager (which was the RIGHT thing to do), that Oulson continued the challenge by what sounds like taunting Reeves with “gee did you tell on me” or words to that effect and then confronting each other in an escalating fashion with verbal and physical interchanges that remind me of a bar room brawl. They were both picking a fight, or so it seems to me. Either of them could have stopped, especially after Reeves left and returned, and if it was Oulson who re-engaged in the interchange by saying something rather than letting it go, then he was in the wrong too. No, he shouln’t have been shot. But it sounds like they were both acting like jerks.</p>

<p>Dont know if either were the type who tended to look for a good fight. And Reeves apparently had one previous occasion of acting inappropriately in a movie theater, but in that case the others were smart enough to avoid the confrontation and not feed into an escalating situation. Had Oulson responded like the other couple did, he would probably still be alive. Not blaming him for his death, but IMO, he is not completely innocent either.</p>

<p>If something person A does bothered person B and they said something to person A, the smart thing to do is apologize, even if they thought person B was ridiculous and out of line. To be be defensive and tell them where to go is asking for trouble, and inviting a fight. It’s just stupid. One should avoid conflict, not engage in it.</p>

<p>While the previous interchange with the couple in the theater in December could seem like Mr Reeves has a “history” of being a jerk about phones in movie theaters, it could also be pointed out that when the person with the cellphone responds in an appropriate rather than confrontational fashion, that the situation resolves without incident. Oulson is not blameless in this scenario. Again, he shouldnt have been shot, but given that he continued to engage Mr. Reeves, grabbed and threw Reeve’s popcorn (and possibly his own cellphone) and his wife tried to reach out and stop him form escalating, its reasonable to think he might have a temper problem himself. Had there been no gun, this more likely could hav escalated into a physical fight and they would probably have been ejected from the theater. So, ill tempered people and guns don’t mix.</p>

<p>sigh-- typo</p>

<p>"Do we know how the conversation between the two began? Is it possible (even if unlikely) that Reeves initially asked Oulson politely to stop texting/turn off his phone and Oulson smarted back at him in a snotty tone when he said he was checking on his daugher? "</p>

<p>I think it has been reported that Reeves did ask him (not sure of tone) to stop texting. Oulson responded by saying that he was texting the babysitter (don’t know if the F word was used at that point). A normal person would have “let it go” at that point, no matter what words Oulson had used. </p>

<p>think about it, Jym, if I’m sitting behind you and you’re whispering to your H, and I say, “hey, please stop talking.” If you turn around and say, “I’m reminding my H that he’s supposed to take his heart medicine,” I’m certainly not going to say another word no matter what tone or curse words you might choose to use. The reason for your talking is far more important than my temporary discomfort by some whispering. </p>

<p>Not necessarily, M2ck. If I am whipsering ot my H and you say something politely to me, and I respond with “mind your own business, lady. I am reminding my DH to take his heart medicine and I’d rather he not drop dead during the movie, so do you mind??” you might choose to respond again. I don’t think we know what tone Oulson used with Reeves, or what initial tone or words Reeves used when he asked Oulson to stop. There is a big difference between “would you mind turning off your phone as the movie is going to start soon and I find it distracting” vs “hey buddy- dont you know the rules? You are supposed to turn off your phone when the previews start so do it before I get someone to make you do it”. Same general message, very different tone.</p>

<p>** And if you asked me to stop whispering, I responded with “oh I am so sorry to have bothered you. I was just reminding him to take his heart meds” and you responded with “well, unless he is going to take it this very second, you should have done that before the movie started or waited til it ended”, that could lead to an escalation. You say you would have accepted the explanation. Not everyone responds as courtously, or as we think they should, as the Reeves/Oulson case suggests.</p>

<p>And do we know it was an iphone? Where was that said? It was some sort of smart phone with texting capabilities, but not sure what brand. Gee, with the fits my DS’s new Motorola droid is apparently giving him, maybe hurling it somewhere might not be such a bad idea ;)) </p>

<p>** forgot to mention, personally, I’'d probably be more understanding and feel less inconvenienced if someone had to get up to use the restroom than I would if they pulled out their phone to check the time. That is simply not necessary and IMO is discourteous to others around them, especially when patrons have been asked to keep their phones off. It isnt necessary to check the time, but it is necessary to respond to the call of nature.</p>

<p>*wrong emoticon</p>

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<p>If what he was doing is aboveboard and necessary as was later found to be the case, why should he apologize?
He has nothing to apologize for, especially considering he put his phone away right after he finished the text. </p>

<p>Moreover, from what the witnesses in previous and this incidents have related, it seems the shooter has a serious belligerent overbearing attitude in both incidents which was such that it would have understandably provoked an angry response from those being imposed upon. </p>

<p>In that context, blaming Oulson for his reaction is IMO, a form of victim blaming and muddying up issues of legal/moral responsibility for the sake of a supposedly fairer “a pox on both their houses” approach to examining this case.</p>

<p>Especially considering in the legal case as presented so far, it seems nothing Chad Oulson has done…however jerky he may have been remotely justified the over-the-top disproportionate escalation by the shooter. </p>

<p>I’m sorry, but once the gun was pulled out and used, the onus then falls on the shooter as nothing we know about Chad’s Oulson’s actions so far justifies his shooting. </p>

<p>The most prudent thing for the shooter to avoid confrontations in the first place is to have gone to theater management first so he avoids involving himself in such confrontations. After all, they’re the ones with the legal standing to order him to enforce the rules, not the shooter himself. He could have also opted to complain to management*, demand a refund/exchange of tickets, and attended the theater at another time. </p>

<p>Not to mention the shooter was in no position to lecture others about theater rules considering he was violating them himself by bringing his gun. </p>

<p>A violation that is a far greater offense in the greater scheme of things…especially considering what happened. </p>

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<li>While he did attempt to go, it was reported they were busy with another customer and he wasn’t willing to wait. </li>
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<p>If it was ridiculous and out of line, apologizing would be giving in to a bully and that’s precisely the type of response most fathers…especially in Chad’s generation and older would have strongly discouraged. </p>

<p>If someone makes a ridiculous and/or out of line request, it is not considered an escalation if the other person reacts with disagreement. If anything, some would feel that’s a natural justified response. </p>

<p>Did he put his phone away after texting or did he hurl it at the shooter?</p>

<p>Why should he apologize? Because it is the right thing to do and it de-fuses the situation. Don’t think that can be any clearer. The point is, Cobrat, that regardless of whether the texter was in the right or in the wrong, and regardless of whether the person bothered by it was overly sensitive to it or not DOES NOT MATTER. The correct way to respond is to apologize for disturbing the other person. It is the polite thing to do keeps the situation from escalating, which should be the goal, ESPECIALLY if someone is being unreasonable. The stupidest thing to do in a situation like that is to try to reason with someone who is unreasonable, or worse yet, to respond with something that will pi$$ them off. When you see that someone is unduly annoyed, you back out of the interaction, you do not fuel the fire.</p>

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More ridiculous speculation and irrelevant side blather. Most parents teach their children manners and to avoid fights, regardless of the generation. Good grief. Dollars to donuts Chad was probably a “bully” too. Let that stuff go. Everything in life is not about bullies, busybodies, people with authoritarian issues etc, but it sure seems to come up constantly in your posts.
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<p>That’s the current assertion by the defense. It remains to be seen whether that’s actually the case. </p>

<p>I also find it interesting this was brought up now considering it wasn’t brought up by the shooter or other witnesses when they were first interviewed. Not to mention the deputy witness hearing the shooter’s wife remarks about the shooting not being justified and him telling her to shut up isn’t going to help him in the credibility department here. </p>

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<p>Not speculation. Am speaking as a male who is around a decade younger than him. </p>

<p>While the second part is true to an extent, fathers also tended to teach their children…especially boys to never be doormats who give-in at the first sign of someone acting in a domineering manner towards them or imposes an out-of-line/unreasonable request out…especially when the other party has no legal standing to do so in public. </p>

<p>If anything, many fathers in my friends’/my parental generation…especially those who were military vets would regard sons who followed your line of advice with much embarrassment. </p>

<p>Wonder if the defense is going to do some thorough background checking of Oulsen, to find witnesses who can speak to his temperament. It just so happened that the other couple came forward who had the interchange with Reeves in December. Wonder if Oulsen has ever been arrested for assault or has a reputation for being one to pick fights? Was he the model citizen who never got into trouble a day in his life, or was he a scrappy guy who enjoyed conflict? We don’t know. The prosecution and the media seems to have painted him as the innocent victim. Too bad its unlikely his widow will take the stand or be interviewed. Wonder what she would say, under oath, as to why she put her hand out in front of her husband who was escalating and had grabbed and thrown Reeves’ popcorn? There is, IMO, no chance that she did it to “protect him from the gunshot”. Its unlikely anyone saw the gun and even more unlikely that someone could react that quickly. Suspect she was trying to get him to calm down. And its probably not the first time.</p>

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<p>I would be very surprised if they didn’t as failing to do so would make them remiss in their duty to provide the defendant with a “vigorous defense” as he’s entitled to in order for him to receive a fair trial in the courts. </p>

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<p>None which has been publicized so far. However, if there are any arrests/reputation, it will surface as the defense continues to dig into his past. </p>

<p>The prosecution, however, is likely to challenge any finds on grounds of relevance to the crime and diverting the focus to placing the victim on trial rather than the actual defendant. </p>

<p>“Not necessarily, M2ck. If I am whipsering ot my H and you say something politely to me, and I respond with “mind your own business, lady. I am reminding my DH to take his heart medicine and I’d rather he not drop dead during the movie, so do you mind??” you might choose to respond again”</p>

<p>Seriously…I would respond with, “I’m sorry.” Because i would have felt like an idiot for intruding on such an important issue. I wouldn’t care how you responded. I would have felt foolish for saying anything.</p>

<p>now, if you said, “Hey I’m asking my H where he wants to go for ice cream afterwards,” I may have said something like, “and that can’t wait?” but probably I would have just rolled my eyes and said nothing. </p>

<p>“And do we know it was an iphone? Where was that said?”</p>

<p>That was in one of the news reports…it may be in one of the links above or a link that is included on one of those pages. </p>

<p>“Wonder if the defense is going to do some thorough background checking of Oulsen, to find witnesses who can speak to his temperament”</p>

<p>I think the defense has to tread lightly with that. Otherwise it’s like a defense in a rape case bringing forth info that the victim had a history of being “loose”. </p>

<p>Why is talking to a babysitter comparable to heart medication? Chances are it was something trivial.</p>

<p>Not that it matters.</p>

<p>^^
Because when parents talk to babysitters DURING a function it’s usually because either something’s come up or there’s a big concern. </p>

<p>I would never assume that a parent was talking about something trivial during an event to a sitter. I would always give the benefit of the doubt. It’s really not my place to judge whether the topic between parent and sitter rises to what I consider important enough.</p>

<p>Hmm, that is not my experience. Since they just got there, I would assume it was the basic check-in call. But, again. It really doesn’t matter.</p>

<p>Edit to add - Funny enough I just heard a CNN report saying he was texting with his 3-year old. “Hi honey, I’m at the theater. What are you doing?” and the like. Nothing critical I would guess. </p>

<p>you would not know if they “just got there” from home or from the sitter’s place. You would have no idea if the parents had been away from the child for hours. More to the point, just because the parents may have just seen their child 15 minutes earlier, does not mean that something important hadn’t come up.</p>

<p>When we see adults doing stuff, unless the antics are silly, we should assume that there’s a genuine reason for it and give the benefit of the doubt. It would be arrogant for us to learn that a parent was texting the babysitter and assume it was trivial. </p>

<p>“Hmm, that is not my experience. Since they just got there, I would assume it was the basic check-in call. But, again. It really doesn’t matter.”</p>

<p>And if you did assume that it was a basic “check in TEXT,” you’d think that this would be over VERY soon, so no need to say a word. Right?</p>

<p>Of course thats what defense will do, Cobrat. I wasnt really 'asking". Was stating in the form of a question. Rhetorical.</p>

<p>Are you a parent, Cobrat? Do you have any firsthand experience on parenting skills? Since the answer is no, you cant really speak to, other than from the child perspective, what parents choose to teach their kids. Once again this is being turned to a discussion of “domineering” people and not to be a “doormat”. It might be healthy to try to view the world from a perspective other than from that small box.</p>

<p>As for this

That is more utter nonsense. The military does not want hotheads. It is a BAD thing to give a hothead a weapon, as is clear from this situation. Most of the folks I know in the military (and that is a lot) teach their family to learn to de-escalate a situation. To be level-headed, diplomatic and think with a clear head to resolve a situation. Sure there are some control freaks in some military ranks. And sure there is a hierarchy of rank and authority which can be misused. Duh. But this can exist elsewhere as well. Am sorry if your experience is limited to puny people who have been bullied and picked on, domineered or shamed by authority or people with entitlement issues (in your mind), but the stuff you say is just so ridiculous its not worth responding to any more. Will just go back to banging my head against a wall. It seems more effective. </p>

<p>Well, I don’t think what the call was about means much to this case all. Shooting him was not okay. But, as a parent I have found most calls from kids and babysitters to be in the trivial category. It’s not arrogance. Maybe, it;s just my kids but they called with nonsense a lot. Nothing to die over.</p>

<p>My only point was the emphasis on the subject matter of the call seems to be a distraction. It’s irrelevant. </p>

<p>“Edit to add - Funny enough I just heard a CNN report saying he was texting with his 3-year old. “Hi honey, I’m at the theater. What are you doing?” and the like. Nothing critical I would guess.”</p>

<p>Again, even if that were true, Reeves was not aware of the content. All he had been told is that the victim was texting the sitter (or child). Most level-headed folks would back down after that. </p>

<p>I doubt the 3 year old has a cell phone (or can even read), so it’s likely the text was to the sitter. In other reports, the child is 2. What is the real age of this child? Not that it really matters. </p>

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<p>Those fathers also didn’t want to raise hotheads. </p>

<p>However, there is a middle ground between being a hothead or instigating a confrontation as the shooter did and showing an overly domineering/entitled person one has enough of a backbone to not be a doormat when that person demands something unreasonable/out-of-line and doesn’t have the legal standing to make such demands in a public setting. </p>

<p>The following quote I heard from them could some up some of their mentality:</p>

<p>“Never start or provoke fights, but also don’t allow an aggressor to walk all over you.”</p>

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And thats exactly what some defense attorneys do. They will look for mitigating circumstances. Thats their job, whether we like it or not. I remember an attorney saying once " my job is not to do what is fair. My job is to win my case within the guidielines of the law".</p>

<p>I agree with flossy. We simply cannot and should not make assumptions about the intentions of others. We dont know the purpose of a call or a text, and you know what they say about assumptions. As for the " example about the heart medicine, the point is, we would not likely escalate into a catfight. If you initially asked me politely to stop talking and I said something rude, you would hopefully let it go and think silently in your head what you might like to say as a snappy retort, but would have the good sense not to say it, especially in a situation where someone had already been rude to you. If I was whispering to my husband and you said something obnoxious to me, I would likley ignore it. But that said, I’d know that the person behind me was possibly the type who would kick the back of my chair throughout the movie, so I would finish what I had to say to my husband and I would then hush. We have better judgement and can potentially anticipate the behaviour of the person we had the unfortunate luck of sitting near, and short of moving our seats to get away from them, we’d cut our losses and minimize interacting with them further. Because thats the smart thing to do.</p>

<p><em>typos (maybe I should just annotate with *t to indicate typo corrections)
*</em>Computer froze</p>