<p>The bottomline in all of this is that Reeves has shown that he has the kind of temper that would shoot someone who gets “in his face”. Should someone like this be allowed to loose among us? Yes, people like that are, because we can’t just pick and choose who they are. But Reeves has so shown himself. As for jerks like Oulson, and, yes, he was a jerk, there are plenty of them out there and there is no putting them away, unless they run into someone with a gun and a temper like Reeves. </p>
<p>I think this is an issue that calls for a lot of thought when we run into creeps like Oulson, or get into a “pissing match” match with someone. It’s not just on the road, that road rage occurs, and one never knows how far the other person will go if tempers are lost, pride and ego at stake. A lot of grief for a lot people because of what happened here. </p>
<p>Would guess he is going to try to plead down to at least manslaughter, but do they offer house arrest for that? I also have concern that he might still be a suicide risk if released.</p>
<p>“Would guess he is going to try to plead down to at least manslaughter, but do they offer house arrest for that? I also have concern that he might still be a suicide risk if released.”</p>
<p>Don’t know when House Arrest is allowed. I agree that he’d be a suicide risk if he had been released on bond. However, if he were to get HA for 10 years (or whatever) I’m not sure he’d be a suicide risk if he’d be happy just hanging around the house and back yard. I’m guessing that HA still allows a person to go to Dr visits, right?</p>
<p>I agree that he needs to do a plea deal in order to save his family from a long drawn out expensive process. </p>
<p>Flossy, I think he feels horrible about the whole thing because of how it’s affected HIM. That’s quite different from having true empathy for what his actions have done to the Oulson family and to his own wife. </p>
<p>Well, m2ck, you are projecting because of how this all turned out. imho. Many, many posters feel that Oulson was every bit as much of a "jerk’ as Reeves And personally, I happen to think that if he hadn’t been shot to death Oulson’s wife would have been very angry with her husband for not just shutting up and watching the movie. But, that is also an immaterial guess. None of us know and none of that matters. </p>
<p>When men with hubris lose face, they can be a suicide risk. </p>
<p>Its likely that he is still rationalizing his behavior (“he scared the crap outta me… I had nowhere to go… he hit me with something and I was defending myself…” ) but bottom line, he overreacted, heck they both overreacted, but he used unjustified deadly force. Even if he’d just decked the guy he’d probably be facing assault charges. Just not murder charges.</p>
<p>Right, and if he hadn’t shot him and Oulson did launch his phone into his face Oulson could be facing assault charges. But, what happened is what happened. And, he will pay. I can’t see self-defense sticking in this case. </p>
<p>"Many, many posters feel that Oulson was every bit as much of a "jerk’ as Reeves "</p>
<p>“as Reeves”??? did Oulson shoot anyone? Uh no. So, he can’t be considered to be “as much of a jerk as Reeves”. </p>
<p>I may be projecting. However, people who can be “over-the-top-reactors” often don’t feel real empathy for others who’ve been negatively affected by their actions/words. They feel bad when their own lives are negatively affected. Do you think he feels bad that he told his wife to “shut the F up”? Do you think it’s the first time he’s ever said anything like that to her? </p>
<p>Still cant quite tell what was thrown by Oulson and at who, but he was an antagonizer as well. I feel terrible for his family, but he was no saint in all this.</p>
<p>No, but I’m sure at that point he realized what happened and being a former cop knew that it was time to be quiet. Oulson used similar language when he was asked to stop texting. That is not for me such a big deal. Everyone was freaking out. I’m not in a position to start analyzing their marriages. It’s irrelevant.</p>
<p>LOL-- we are talking degrees of jerkiness? A jerk and a bigger jerk? They were both jerks- but one had a gun. Bad outcome… Can almost hear the faint playground whines of “but mom-- he started it!!”</p>
<p>You have a good point about there being exceptions if the response is disproportionate which would have applied if it was Oulson who happened to have a gun and shot the shooter over someone acting in an overbearing manner on merely a verbal basis or wasn’t posing an imminent threat to his life. </p>
<p>I should have been more clear though in this case, the instigator of the incident was also the one who made the over-the-top disproportionate escalation when he took out his gun and shot Oulson. </p>
<p>Thus, in this case, the shooter was the aggressor judging by witness testimony to his belligerent attitude during and right after the shooting…including a deputy along with witness testimony about how he acted in a previous encounter where he overreacted even after theater management got those witnesses to put away their cell phones and they complied. </p>
<p>From that previous incident, it’s clear that even if his demands are fulfilled, he will still remain visibly agitated towards the offending party for the duration of the movie and go so far as to stalk one to the bathroom(witness’ words) because the offense happened in the first place and/or his demands weren’t fulfilled quickly enough for his satisfaction. </p>
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<p>If the jurors feel Oulson’s actions are an understandable mistake anyone in his position…including they themselves could have made if they were in that very situation, it means they are going to be much more sympathetic to the victims in this case, deeply skeptical of defense arguments, and inclined to vote for maximum penalties for the shooter.</p>
<p>If the jurors feel Oulson bears a decent portion or worse, equal portion of the blame for what transpired, the defense could take advantage of that to pull the red herring maneuver of effectively put the victim, Chad Oulson on trial. </p>
<p>Once the defense is able to do that, the jurors would be much more inclined to be persuaded by defense arguments, considerations he’s an elderly man with arthritis even though he was healthy enough to have a history of acting belligerently and carry/use a gun, and ideally view Chad Oulson’s culpability as such that he becomes at least just as much of a bad guy. </p>
<p>If this happens, the jurors may depending on juror instructions, vote guilty on a much lesser penalty or if not, those factors enable the defense to place enough reasonable doubt to opt voting not guilty… </p>
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<p>Keep in mind the definition of “gentlemen” in practice is in the eye of the beholder. </p>
<p>The definition not too long ago among many fathers would have included “not allowing others to push them around”. However, that could be accomplished by voicing disagreement…even in a snippy tone of irritation if the imposition was unreasonable or worse, out of line. </p>
<p>I do agree yelling wouldn’t have helped, but keep in mind it’s much easier to critique and even condemn Chad Oulson’s actions with 20/20 hindsight along with not being directly in the situation with facing the stress of concern over his sick child and then being imposed upon by someone who turned out…has a history of ordering others around from previous incidents. </p>
<p>In addition to the report I cited about the shooter grousing even after he got theater management involved and got the cell users to comply, I recalled there was another reported incident where he yelled at another cell user. </p>
<p>In light of that consideration, even if Chad had calmly said, “Excuse me, but I’m in the midst of addressing concerns with my sick child” would have been enough to set the shooter off. </p>
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<p>Not always in practice. That scenario leaves much more room for cops to use their discretion to determine if arresting the one throwing the punch is necessary. </p>
<p>I’ve read of and known of some situations where if the cops determined the one throwing the punch was justified or was elderly, they are inclined to separate and calm all parties down, make sure they safely go their separate ways, and not opt to arrest. Not to mention it saves them the trouble of writing up and filing arrest reports. </p>
<p>Granted, I’m talking what I’ve heard and known about practiced in NYC and Boston. </p>
<p>We don’t know yet if Oulson was that much of a jerk. We don’t know what was said, tone, etc.</p>
<p>But, yes, there are degrees of jerkiness. </p>
<p>Anyway…the reason that I don’t think he has much empathy for any of the victims (victim, widow, his wife), is this:</p>
<pre><code>If ANY OF US ever shot someone to death AND SAW THEM DIE (blood spurting from his mouth) and the bullet also hit a totally innocent person, we’d be unable to function. Seriously, I don’t think I could get out of bed and dress if I ever did that. I know that I couldn’t eat or sleep after that. I just don’t see any real remorse from this guy - other than his own discomfort. He doesn’t look like he’s lost sleep…or even missed a meal.
</code></pre>
<p>I once accidentally spilled a TINY bit of boiling water on my 3 year old son. I STILL feel sick to my stomach when I think about it. At the time, seeing son in pain, caused by ME, was awful. I kept thinking about the pain (which we all know is AWFUL), but even worse for a young child. He and I still talk about it from time to time because a tiny scar is right above his knee. </p>
<p>M2ck,
Probably most average persons on the street would be traumatized by seeing someone die (I don’t go to any blood and guts movies) but career law enforcement folks might respond differently due to their training. And besides. If oulson fell back in the row in front and reeves had remained seated, he wouldn’t have seen any of that, especially in a darkened theater. Remember the kind if theater it was and the angle/steepness of the rows. And there had been no report of any blood coming from olsens mouth. Did you see that somewhere? </p>
<p>A couple of weeks ago, we had a horrible tragedy occur less than two miles from where I live. A 14-year old girl stabbed to death her 11-year old half-sister after the mom had already left for work. We’re talking 40 stab wounds - horrific! With each stab she accused the victim of not being grateful for everything she did for her (she had cooked her dinner six nights in a row the previous week). The teen obviously just snapped and those who know the family are wondering what was really going on there. It was a single mom, working two jobs. The teen is currently in juvey hold while they decide if she’s going to be tried as an adult. Anyway, I know at least three people who knew the family directly and it’s been interesting to hear some of their perspectives on what could have been going on in the family home; but last Wednesday I was in a water aerobics class with a lady who used to drive these kids a lot to church events/choir, etc. because they all attend the same church (the 11-year old actually went to school there). She said last Sunday she was sort of shocked, because the mother showed up at church, and was talking to people (even said she smiled at some) about the situation, mostly regarding the teen who awaits her day in court this coming week, how her visitors were limited, etc. (Oh, the cops held this girl for SEVEN hours before they let in an attorney or her mom!). But like I said, the lady in my class was in disbelief that the woman was even able to get out of bed (as were the rest of the class members who heard the story). We just couldn’t grasp how, after she’d lost her 11-year old daughter to such a horrific crime, and is very likely to lose her 14-year old to a stint in juvey for the next seven years (if she’s not tried as an adult), that she could function to the point of showing up at church (she is also being told she has to move out of her townhouse because it’s a crime scene) seeming sort of like her old self. I just don’t think I could function at the level she is. I’d be in bed, with the covers drawn up over my head. </p>
<p>“And there had been no report of any blood coming from olsens mouth. Did you see that somewhere?”</p>
<p>Yes, the witness who said that Oulson fell back near/on him said that Oulson said something like, “i can’t believe you shot me,” and then blood started coming out of his mouth. </p>
<p>Even police officers go thru intensive therapy after they have to shoot someone. Killing someone, even a criminal, is so against what we are as civilized folks that a person would be very unusual or disordered not to have a long-lasting response/reaction.</p>
<p>I believe that part of police training involves learning to thicken their skin to this. Otherwise police would not be comfortable drawing their weapon and would perhaps go out on PTSD disability every time they were involved in a shooting. And that doesn’t happen. </p>
<p>As for how the shooter would respond to a polite response? Pure speculation. His defense has produced character witnesses who describe him as a sweet, genteel religious man. </p>