<p>oops, ignore</p>
<p>I’m with you, NODad. I could never see how loans = financial aid.</p>
<p>Government guaranteed loans are aid because taxpayers are supporting students through lower interest rates, deferred repayment, and deferred interest (subsidized Stafford). </p>
<p>The EFC does NOT include loans. The EFC is what the almighty financial aid gods determine you can actually pay each year. Okay, I KNOW that most of us can’t actually do that … it’s about 1/4 of our gross yearly income & we haven’t saved enough to cover it. But the mystical, magical powers that be have decided that we slackers SHOULD have planned properly & can do it. So, technically, your EFC is supposed to be an amount you fork over sans loans. If you are like me, you were not a good girl & you cannot come up with an amount more than you owe on your mortgage without borrowing sometime in the space of the 4 years of college. However, that’s our mistake (or our REALITY, as I prefer to think of it!) … again, we somehow should have been able to save enough. I have a million “buts” of my own, yet the fact remains that this is the way the EFC is supposed to work.</p>
<p>And then there is the matter of “gap” and “packaging.” Not all schools promise to meet 100% of need, thus the concept of gap (COA-EFC-aid). And not all schools that meet need do so in the same way … many, many schools put a lot of loans in their package & call it meeting need. That’s how it is.</p>
<p>This is not new. I worked in financial aid 20 years ago & parents were shell-shocked back then. I was at a school with high tuition & almost nonexistent institutional aid. I packaged with gaps you needed a map to get out of! I think what is really needed is for the TRUTH about how things work to be trumpeted from the rooftops for all to know. But I’ll bet people still won’t truly understand until they are faced with their own pitiful aid packages.</p>
<p>Government guaranteed loans are aid because taxpayers are supporting students through lower interest rates, deferred repayment, and deferred interest (subsidized Stafford). </p>
<p>The EFC does NOT include loans. The EFC is what the almighty financial aid gods determine you can actually pay each year. Okay, I KNOW that most of us can’t actually do that … it’s about 1/4 of our gross yearly income & we haven’t saved enough to cover it. But the mystical, magical powers that be have decided that we slackers SHOULD have planned properly & can do it. So, technically, your EFC is supposed to be an amount you fork over sans loans. If you are like me, you were not a good girl & you cannot come up with an amount more than you owe on your mortgage without borrowing sometime in the space of the 4 years of college. However, that’s our mistake (or our REALITY, as I prefer to think of it!) … again, we somehow should have been able to save enough. I have a million “buts” of my own, yet the fact remains that this is the way the EFC is supposed to work.</p>
<p>And then there is the matter of “gap” and “packaging.” Not all schools promise to meet 100% of need, thus the concept of gap (COA-EFC-aid). And not all schools that meet need do so in the same way … many, many schools put a lot of loans in their package & call it meeting need. That’s how it is.</p>
<p>This is not new. I worked in financial aid 20 years ago & parents were shell-shocked back then. I was at a school with high tuition & almost nonexistent institutional aid. I packaged with gaps you needed a map to get out of! I think what is really needed is for the TRUTH about how things work to be trumpeted from the rooftops for all to know. But I’ll bet people still won’t truly understand until they are faced with their own pitiful aid packages.</p>
<p>Just keep on saying it, kelsmom. I think that a couple of succinctly written paragraphs by you about the facts of FA should be permanently posted at the top of every CC forum.</p>
<p>This info is out there in thousands of different places for all to see. It is handed out by high school guidance departments, described on college and FA websites, outlined in government publications and websites. I wish, though, that it were more prominently and clearly stated in the college FA websites and publications. That certainly would prevent some of this agony.</p>
<p>Yup,
EFC, if taken from our current income, is three times our mortgage payment. Glad we bought our house when the market bottomed out in 1998. We couldn’t buy until we were out from under grad school loans and child care.</p>
<p>my EFC is about 2x my mortgage payment.</p>
<p>And my out of pocket is higher than my EFC.</p>
<p>It is a sacrifice. It has been a sacrifice to be able to stash the cash for the past many years to be able to pay the EFC.</p>
<p>it will be a sacrifice for more years to come.</p>
<p>By sacrifice I mean me living like a pauper. No frills, no vacations, no new anything unless absolutely necessary (I did have to get a new microwave, I’m not going be nuts about it)</p>
<p>I agree with NODad about loans and their place as “financial aid”. We were offered one 3500 non-subsidized loan for a 45,000 college. I figure they lumped us in with the percentage receiving aid in their tally.
Oh, and some private schools are generous to those making 100,000 a year but only if they have no assets. So, the “saver” and those who did without for 18 years now part with their assets while those with new cars, big house etc. will not. As I see it, by the time we’ve spent our assets on 4 years of college for two students (we don’t have a state option–live out of the country), then we will have been able to qualify. Ironic, huh?
I think everyone should pay one price–a low price. A bit socialist but then maybe it’s not a bad idea. At my son’s school, as when I went to college, it is the full-ride need people buying the pizzas every night.</p>
<p>@marie3</p>
<p>Let me guess, was the 3500 non-subsidized loan from Michigan?</p>
<p>Irnpcll,
Okay kid. As someone who had her dreams crushed last year because of financial aid, I know how you feel! I was forced into a corner and felt like a loser when I had no college to go despite 5 acceptance letters and screwed up financial aid everywhere. I worked my butt in high school and 2 jobs. I don’t depend on my mom for anything. I got good SAT scores and GPA which I was so thankful for. I had set up my heart on going to Case Western. I had applied to safeties but because I was so concerned with getting into my dream school, I missed scholarship deadlines at those public schools. Med school is my dream too so I know how you feel. So after this self deprecating gap year after hiding away from my lower scored buddies now in college, I felt I have walked through fire. I came from a lower end economic background but still financial aid screwed me. So no guarantees expect broken dreams!
There is no guarantees in this financial aid thing. Go to the other school, trust me, I wish that option last year from the financial terms. This year I saw many of the lower achievers getting scholarships I coveted to go to my dreams schools and also those acceptance letters while I got wailisted/rejected . Still, I am a year wiser. I am thankful for the scholarship I got to enter a public school, I am thankful for going to college this year. Still dude I know exactly how you feel, where is the hard work gone to you thinking? Why the kid with 200 score lower than me in SATs gets to go college I loved you think? Sucks (: I spent a year crying over the exact thing.</p>
<p>Give yourself some time to heal, but don’t deal it with the way I did. You have the options I didn’t have last year: college!! Grab it! And say hi to me when we pass by in the pre-med forum in the future!!!</p>
<p>UGH. As a single parent - who has worked hard to save over the years in anticipation of my kids going to college - I found that I was in effect punished for saving. And - I was punished for having an ex husband who is affluent but chooses not to participate in his childrens education. I cannot stand those stupid articles that talk about how if you make less than 100k, the Ivies will pay your kids way. What planet are those writers on. </p>
<p>Kudos to you SkyGirl and to all of you kids on this forum who are facing hard financial decisions and all you parents who have to help your kids make hard financial decisions. I would bet most of you kids are goiing to be a huge success. Adversity makes us stronger. I tell myself that all the time!</p>
<p>sueinphilly, we have similar lifestyles. With 2 in college, our biggest non-education expenses (other than ridiculously high medical bills) are my high school d’s sport expenses, which aren’t too bad… Luckily she doesn’t complain about not having designer clothes (has never seen them on me), my car is 9 yrs old and looks it, we don’t eat out… In fact, spring break is coming up and my d is looking forward to our 4 day vacation because she’s bringing 2 friends. We’re camping at a PA state park.</p>
<p>I keep reading all this complaining and it amazes me. Why is it a colleges responsibility to fund your childs education? When my son decided to apply to college, I told him how much we could afford, $20K per year bottomline. he applied to some very expensive schools and some average cost schools. We got our financial aid letters, mostly loans and 2 small merit offers and he chose a school he liked, that met our financial criteria.</p>
<p>I made sure my sons “dream school” was realistic for our family. I did not give him the pie in the sky dream that he could go anywhere he wanted. He worked hard and played sports but still there was no free ride even though he has a 3.7 GPA in high school.</p>
<p>I looked at it this way. I want to drive a mercedes. I cant afford a mercedes. Do I complain that the dealership is mean to me because I work hard and I am good person but the car cost too much? No, I drive a Toyota because I can afford it. I dont beleive my family is “entitled” to drive mercedes. I dont beleive my son is “entitled” to go to any college he chooses.</p>
<p>Parents and guidance counselors tell their kids they can go anywhere they want for college. They get their hopes up and hearts set on “dream schools”. The “dream school” is really one that has the major you want, is in the area you want and one that your family can send you to without filing for bankruptcy. </p>
<p>Stop complaining and make the most of it. Whiel it may seem like “the end of the world” when you are 17 and cant go to your “dream school”, in the end you can get a good education elsewhere and when you apply for a job it will be your skills that excel you, no the name of your school.</p>
<p>I don’t think it is particularly good to try to compare a new car to college. First of all, a car is one of the worst investments you can make. An education, on the other hand, will make you far more money than you pay for it. Nobody is saying that you can’t get a good education elsewhere. But as far as I’m concerned, a kid working extremely hard all through high school deserves to go to a great school–not necessarily the very top of the heap, but at least one that he/she likes a lot, will challenge him/her, and put him/her in a peer group with similar abilities and skill levels. That environment is one that will make the child grow the most and get the most out of education.</p>
<p>I agree with taxguy and the many others who have said that success does not depend on the school that you go to. The example of the City College grads who became quite successful still applies. I know of one partner in a top NYC law firm who went to either City college or Queens (my memory fails me) and then to Yale law school. Some community or county colleges have predetermined transfer agreements with colleges that are quite substantial, allowing a couple of years of saving for bigger ticket tuition. The people at community college are not all neanderthals dragging their knuckles. I think sometimes people do not succeed because their sense of what they deserve gets in the way of their actual situation.</p>
<p>“But as far as I’m concerned, a kid working extremely hard all through high school deserves to go to a great school–not necessarily the very top of the heap, but at least one that he/she likes a lot, will challenge him/her, and put him/her in a peer group with similar abilities and skill levels.”</p>
<p>Ah, just what we need on this list. Another 18 year old from an affluent family with a sense of entitlement. Let me fill you in. College is not summer camp. it is a place where you go to prepare to succeed in the world. Just because you think that you will “like” a school (and nobody really knows until they have actually lived at a place) you do not “deserve” to attend the school even if you have worked extremely hard through high school and have earned admittance.</p>
<p>When it is your money, you can decide what you deserve. When it is you parents’ money, they decide what is a good investment.</p>
<p>I have a question about the campus work pay.
If you are on FA and there is work-study component, is this part counted as part of the EFC? is this earnning tax free?
Now if you are not qualified for any FA, which means your EFC is ‘tuition + others’, but if you still take some campus work, will this earning counted as EFC? Is this earnning tax free?</p>
<p>
If you get work study it is part of the financial aid - not part of the EFC. The EFC is the Expected Family Contribution. The schools COA (Cost OF Attendance) less the EFC is the ‘need’ on which financial aid is based . Work Study is part of the financial aid package. Work Study earnings are paid direct to the student in a pay package. The EFC must be met from your own resources.
No - work study earnings are taxable. Their benefit is that they are not held against you the next year for financial aid purposes. (they are part of the student AGI from his/her tax return and are reported on FAFSA but are deducted from the AGI before the EFC is calculated). Oh WS earnings are exempt from SS and medicare taxes but not from federal and State taxes.</p>
<p>
If you take a non work study job on campus it is just the same as a job off campus. The student gets the earnings in a paycheck. It is taxable. And it may affect the EFC the following year (if student income is over the protected income allowance).</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Then if you are on FA, is it true the grant or whatever they give you as tuition part is tax free, right?</p>
<p>So if you are not qualify for any ‘need-based’ FA, the parents pay out of pocket(after tax) for the tuition, say 35k which translate to 50k before tax, which translate to $30 per hour (40 hours per week, 40 weeks per year). Do you think it is reasonable for parent to think it makes no sense for the kid to work in campus to earn $10 ~$15 hour rate? Unless the kid took the job as pressure relief?</p>
<p>I ask these questions, because one of my friend has been in this situation. He is not very happy with his kid, that he pays the full cost, while his kid took some campus job (in cafeterio or some campus deli) earn $10 per hour, instead of studying more in order to graduate early or earn some merit scholarship. … My kid is talking about looking for campus job too. … While parents willing to pay the full cost, and out of the family big picture, don’t want kid took out any loans, the kid should also consider how to make the best of what your parent’s money worth. Unless work can release the academic study pressure, I don’t suggest any meaning less job for the kid during the school time. Make sense?</p>
<p>grants and scholarships that are for tuition and fees and required books are tax free. Any that cover other expenses (such as room and board) are taxable.</p>
<p>The working while at college is an individual choice really if money is not an issue. Some students actually get better grades when they have a small part time job. College schedules have so much free time that having a job may help the student to structure their time better. This will vary for each student. In my daughter’s case she manages her time a lot better when she has a part time campus job. Also certain jobs can be beneficial in other ways. My daughter has a job as a lab assistant to a professor - she gets to meet some faculty at a different level to what she would otherwise have the opportunity. And the prof is very flexible about scheduling hours so when she has a heavy workload or exams she can work around that.</p>
<p>I would suggest maybe having your kid try an on campus job if that is what he/she wants to do - if it does interfere with studies he/she can always quit the job.</p>