CSM [$55k] vs CPP [$30k] vs UC Merced [$40k] for Civil Engineering

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21

He can always, depending on GPA and test if high enough - apply to schools like Alabama, Mississippi State, UAH and more…maybe some in the mid west - potentially $20-$30K - and bringing in tons of smart west coasters (over 1K Californians ) - buying high stat kids in. U of Arizona is another strong engineering program - doesn’t use tests for admission.

In the end, and it’s hard for kids to get it, but he’s getting one job out of school - and likely a similar job to the other schools. If he truly wants to go away, hopefully he can find a home…or try a home vs. community college.

He may find out there are many great schools - and once he’s on campus, pedigree and all the other stuff is quickly forgotten.

22

It sounds like, since you didn’t qualify for FAFSA’s need based aid, that he isn’t being awarded work study, but he can still work during the school year and especially the longer breaks (winter and summer). Colorado’s minimum wage is 14.62 an hour, and I think the Bay Area is higher.

Also look to see what type of summer internships he could get as a rising junior and senior (rising sophomore is much harder). I would imagine that engineering internships would pay well but they also might be competitive to get).

These earnings could go straight to paying off the loans, thus reducing his debt burden and possibly allowing him to attend Mines.

23

To clarify, he could still work during the summer as a rising sophomore (and also as a rising freshman!) just not at a coveted internship.

Also, you can talk to Mines and explain that he really really wants to attend and will definitely commit if they could help bridge the gap. Explain how much he thinks he can earn from working and ask if there is any merit scholarship or other funding that they could award. If it’s fairly low, say around 5k, they might be open to that.

24

But often you have to get housing.

Given the rigor of Mines, it’d be too hard to rely on working, etc. Does a student really want to pressure themselves?

When we sat through the student panel, the kids made a point to call out Mines rigor.

Maybe a kid can do this for some - but it’s a lot of pressure to put on one self.

25

Working 10 hours a week during school hours and up to full time on breaks may or may not be something this student can handle. But if they can, it might bring Mines into the financially possible range. And maybe summer internships for engineers are well-paid? Can you comment on that based on your son’s experience ?

26

The first summer my son made $19 + got a car and the second $20 and a car - it was a car company. He got $1k a month housing allowance the first summer too - the 2nd he lived home as his role was near home.

I suspect he was underpaid. In fact, the second summer, he got an offer from Corning in NY - $25 an hour and they put you up at a college dorm.

Civil may be very different.

I’m risk averse - I just think - even if you make money, you want to save it, not spend it on tuition.

Mines is cool - I get it - but it’s such a risk. It was my son’s #3 after Bama and Purdue…he loved being at the edge of the mountains.

27

Thanks that’s useful!

And…just clarifying… he got the use of a car for the summer or he was given a car as part of his compensation? I’m assuming the former …but the latter would be so nice!!

28

Yes - and he was mad. I work for a different car company and he was getting a car from my employer and didn’t like that he had to drive his company car vs. ours we gave him (which helped so my daughter had a car for the summer).

Interestingly his internship at the car company was a place I had worked 8 or so years before - for 15 years…nothing to do with me…I’m sales and marketing in an office. He was engineering and in a plant -plus I know few there anymore as they’ve had buyouts galore so I really know few - and this was in another state…but he had a lot of auto activities on his resume through his school and his job the previous summer during covid was detailing cars…and this internship came as a late call. He found the listing on indeed. He was going to take a “customer service” internship with a conglomerate in NC when that call came to him. Internships are tough to get although when you get the first, then experience begets experience.

But a car is not normal - but this was a car company he interned at. He now works in aero. Civil is going to be very different - whether for a firm or I know in Nashville, I saw a bunch of civil internships with the state, etc. but who knows what path your kid will follow.

Here’s the CSM annual report - go to page 5 for jobs. I’m surprised Civil is so large. I wouldn’t have thought that. They show internships at $15-54 an hour with a $25 average.

You could ask CPP for one - I only see SLO (and it’s old) on line.

Career-Center-Annual-Report-2022-2023-DIGITAL-FINAL.pdf (mines.edu)

29

Thank you for your message. I did email to both admission (for merit raise) and financial aid office, saying exactly that (to close the gap of $15k, maybe institutional scholarship, work study and others), but no luck. They just recommended that we seek outside scholarship. I understand that, the end of the day it is Colorado public school. We are grateful that we even got some merit. Can’t imagine UC does something like that to so many OOS students.
Thank you for the idea and perspective though for the internship earnings!

30

Where did you son go? I completely agree that we don’t want to give him a pressure of making money along with engineering rigorous study. If he can work, great but yes he should save that and who knows he might want to go to grad school and use the money for that instead of undergrad education.
Thank you so much for emphasizing “no debt!”

31

I sent you a DM. Look for the envelope icon next to your name in the upper right corner.

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32

PhD programs are almost always funded. The student will receive a tuition remission plus a stipend which is usually enough to live on frugally.

Masters programs are different and you usually have to pay— but a lot of schools have an accelerated masters that can be completed in one year, for their own undergraduate students.

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33

I think Mines has lowered the scholarships over the years.

My son went to Alabama. Purdue was initially his #1 and they offered merit but after he visited Bama with friends during Senior year (you had to do a job shadow or college visit and some friends invited him) - he fell in love with the Honors dorm. He’s a germ phobe and you get your own room with shared bathroom with one other. At Purdue, at the time, he was fearful they’d have him a few miles off campus in an apartment. It worked out ok - he had 20 interviews and 5 offers by Christmas with his internship company coming through later - but again, he was Meche, not Civil.

Mines was third (I think) - he says it was. I’m not sure if he really wanted to see it - but we combined it with a ski trip to Snow Mass :slight_smile: It was a super neat campus and downtown golden was kind of cool. They had a student panel - and I wish my kid listened to them. They said - don’t take AP on the engineering type classes (math, physics). Take them again. My kid didn’t listen and WD’d calc two his first semester although he said it was the professor, not the rigor. But the Mines students noted how difficult it is there.

Having money in the bank is always a good thing in my mind.

The truth is - nobody knows what’s the right school. The kids do their best - to find the one that feels best - but they may get to that fit and have a bad roommate or professor or hate the dining hall food. Or maybe there’s noise in the dorms. Or they get lonely.

At the same time, they might go somewhere they didn’t want to (due to money or their only acceptance) - and in four years, look back not envisioning themselves anywhere else.

One doesn’t know - but it sounds like your kid has a peer pressure thing.

Mine was the other way - I was pushing Purdue and he was like no thanks - and telling me all the ranking was hype and not real - and in his case, it’s true as he interned with Georgia Tech people (and got an invite back, they didn’t) and works now with Michigan, Washington, CWRU and more - but also schools like Western Michigan, Utah, etc. But that’s MechE - I can’t speak for civil, etc.

But in general, why would anyone want debt if they don’t need it?

I’m very debt conscious and risk averse. Others don’t agree. But I think - if the government only allows the student to borrow $27K - well there must be a reason!!

Hopefully CPP wows him and your problems go away!!!

34

Thank you so much! It’s so helpful to hear others experiences and perspectives!
We’ll see next week and however he feels about CPP, he still has options and that’s a good thing!

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35

and there are other schools he can apply to - maybe until May 1 - that could be much less. What’s his GPA and test score?

36

His GPA is around 3.9 weighted and didn’t take test (applied test optional).
He is picky though where he wants to live. Not south nor big metro cities. We used to live in Portland OR and he hates the weather there so didn’t apply OSU or U of Oregon (even though he has grandpa in Eugene). He wants to be near mountains but didn’t like Bozeman :joy:

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37

Chico says they are still taking apps.

NAU might be another - cool town but larger school. Says contact school for WUE.

Well I hope CPPP goes - the mountains aren’t that far :slight_smile:

It’s tough when kids aren’t more open but he did consider Bozeman.

UNM is also in the mountains (it says contact school) and SD Mines is in Rapid City - which is an awesome city - and near Custer State Park which is INCREDIBLE. So it has some similarities to what he seems to like - and it’s cheap. And it’s ABET accredited. Maybe worth a look? It’s on WUE if still avail.

Utah is great too - but does he like to ski? If Salt Lake is too big, my son did a rotation in Ogden Utah for his first six months…best 6 months of his life. Biking, hiking, skiing - 20 minutes away at Snow Basin - way closer than at Mines…they’re WUE if avail (Weber State - although it’s not ABET - not sure if that matters for civil).

Just some more ideas -don’t mean to overstep.

I just hate people overspending. It’s my thing :slight_smile:

Best of luck

38

Thank you! I’ll look into SD mines and UNM. He wasn’t interested in NAU for some reason. I really appreciate you’re taking time for giving me your thought and advice!!

39

NM also has a “mine” school (New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology).

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40

Yeah - I didn’t mention because with Golden, I figured they want area size - and NM School of Mines is more isolated - but does look like lots of nature surrounding from pictures…and it’s much smaller although SD School of Mines, which is also smaller than CSM.

It’s WUE though - so worth OP looking for sure.

Looks to on the way from Albuquerque down to Las Cruces.

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