CSM: Dickens anyone?

<p>Garland, I agree in principle, but in reality, even great classics such as Jane Eyre are more appealing to “chicks.” If my son were handed d’s reading list, he might drop to his knees and weep. In general, the literature (if you can call it that) assigned in his elementary school is almost exclusively the tales of adventurous, female protagonists. </p>

<p>It pains me as an English major to see Oprah’s book club selections on d’s reading list.</p>

<p>For those of you who either like or are interested in the artistry of Cormac McCarthy, here is my review of his latest, “The Road” in the Dartmouth Review (definitely not chiclit):</p>

<p>The Other Side of Paradise
<a href=“http://www.dartreview.com/archives/2007/01/12/the_other_side_of_paradise.php[/url]”>http://www.dartreview.com/archives/2007/01/12/the_other_side_of_paradise.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Hoo boy. That’s a really nice review, and the most favorable one of that book I’ve seen. I have been in love with All The Pretty Horses forever – I think it’s one of those practically-perfect books – but I haven’t thought as highly of any of his other books. Nothing I had read or heard about The Road made me want to bother with it, but maybe I will.</p>

<p>My daughter read or re-read almost all of McCarthy, including The Road, last year. He was #1 on her Top 10 list for 2006 (along with various twee and alt-country songs, Mart/Sade, and Charles D’Ambrosio’s essays). Her comment to me about The Road was “He’s getting old. It might have been a pretty good short story, but it’s not a good novel.” She likes Blood Meridian best, I think. She would not particularly have enjoyed the religious themes highlighted in FS’s review.</p>

<p>Garland, I’m also a bit concerned about the way the term “chick lit” is at times applied to any novel with a female protaganist. As your definition suggests, chick lit is something of a perjorative term that refers to light reading intended for young women. To me, chick lit is beach reading, not Jane Eyre.
I do think that it is a problem when teachers assign too many books with overtly feminist messages to any class, particularly a mixed gender one. Works like A Doll’s House and The Handmaid’s Tale are not chick lit, but they do have pretty heavy handed pro-feminist messages that might turn off some guys. I’m not saying that they shouldn’t be read, just that they shouldn’t be read to the exclusion of other types of literature.</p>

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<p>Yeah, but who says that Aragorn was thinking with his teeth? Everybody knows that, in general. elf-princesses were the hottest babes in Middle Earth.</p>

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<p>There is more to the term than just a female protagonist. To be true chick lit the book must also be aimed at and marketed to a female readership. Those books go hand in hand with their cinematic cousins, the chick flicks. </p>

<p>There is nothing negative about tailoring your product to fit the tastes of your target audience. It’s just good business. The world is full of books, movies, games, and all manner of other consumer products that are aimed at one sex or the other.</p>

<p>Wow, thanks JHS - great list.
The last thing he read that he seemed to enjoy (i.e. that he read on his own) was the Chronicles of Narnia books. Can’t believe I’d never heard of Pratchett before – it looks like there are a bunch to choose from. Am undecided yet re: Fanny Hill…!</p>

<p>“There is more to the term than just a female protagonist. To be true chick lit the book must also be aimed at and marketed to a female readership.”</p>

<p>I would add that in my mind, “chick lit” books must also involve romance as a central theme.</p>

<p>I think works of genius can be found in every genre of art, including those that generate mostly commercialized dreck (like pop music, TV writing, and chick lit).</p>

<p>Stickershock:</p>

<p>Never say that the Last Days of Pompeii was on your 10th grader assigned reading list! An example of good literature? The book that launched a thousand entries into the worst-writing competitions? “It was a dark and stormy night…”</p>

<p>Guys, I was not putting down chick lit. I was questioning the application of the term to any book with a female protagonist, like Icargirl said.</p>

<p>It means something pretty specific, which ain’t Farewell to Manzanar or even, I assert, P & P, which is a really funny comedy of manners which along the way satirizes much of society, especially archaic class systems.</p>

<p>And is a pretty good read, too!</p>

<p>Garland:</p>

<p>Let’s agree that P& is a comedy of manners and that it is a pretty good read. Its theme, however, is love and marriage, which is not what my two boys look for in their readings. And they happen to like to read, unlike so many boys whose parents have been lamenting on CC.</p>

<p>marite, it was not The Last Days of Pompeii, by Bulwer-Lytton. It was simply titled Pompeii, and Robert Harris was the author. I believe it was for Latin, not Lit. I didn’t finish reading it, though. D claimed it back as the deadline approached, and I’ve never dug it out of her book stash. So I really can’t express an informed opinion. I remember it was holding my attention, at any rate.</p>

<p>Oh. I remember reading good reviews of the Harris book. Great sigh of relief!
Disclaimer: I actually read the Last Days of Pompeii in my teens; also Quo Vadis.</p>

<p>What about Catcher in the Rye for boys? Mine both loved it–aged 12 or 13.</p>

<p>Even though they have long outgrown them, my youngest still reads all the latest releases of the Martin series by Brian Jacques and the Artemis series by Eoin Colfer–and Potter. They are fast reads by now. Those long series gave them a taste for historical fiction.</p>

<p>The oldest one used to read Michael Connelly as ‘beach lit’. </p>

<p>I admit that I read Victoria Holt well into my college years. ;)</p>

<p>Marite, sorry, I can’t agree that it’s theme is love and marriage. It is definitely a comedy of manners and a good read, among other things; i’ll give you that. That teenage boys wouldn’t want to read it doesn’t make it “chick lit” though. There are lots of things teenage boys don’t like to read; that’s a function of them, not the literature. </p>

<p>I’m not advocating making them read it; just trying to mitigate the subtle sexism in the general literary remarks here, which go beyond who should be required to read what.</p>

<p>My S had to read it as a frosh in college, didn’t love it, but did think that Elizabeth Bennett was pretty cool.</p>

<p>I still believe the reading tastes of most men, not just as teenagers, varries greatly from the tastes of most women. H admitted to me that he recycled the same book report for four years in his teens: Johnny Got His Gun. I always tried to interest him in books that I thought might appeal to him. After my Water Method Man recommendation (John Irving,) he never would trust my suggestions again. He prefers non-fiction or historical fiction. That’s not uncommon for many men.</p>

<p>I read Johnny Got His Gun in HS, made an enormous impression on me. I recommended it to my D a few years ago.</p>

<p>When I was in grad school, I was first amazed, and then got used to guys who liked Jane Austen.</p>

<p>I’m sure your premise is true, but I think it’s kind of too bad. There’s too much wonderful lit out there to start divvying it up that way.</p>

<p>Garland: I think you are reading sexism where it does not exist. The fact is that girls and boys, men and women, do tend to like different genres. It does not make the kind of books women prefer to read inferior. Adventure stories that appeal to boys are very likely to be inferior as works of literature to a lot of chick lit books, or, if you prefer, books that deal with love and marriage.
As for P&P, why can’t it be a comedy of manner with love and marriage as its central theme? It is a truth universally acknowledged… does not seem to go down very well with boys who do not have marriage in mind.
In my house, we have a tacit pact. I do not expect my kids to like
everything I read, and they know not to suggest sci-fi books to me.</p>

<p>This thread is not about what adults should be reading, or even about what college students should be reading, but what is assigned in k-12 schools. The CSM author bemoans the lack of classics on k-12 reading lists, but a lot of those titles are from a much earlier period. The 20th century produced a lot of great literature. It’s not just limited to Dickens, Austen, Melville, Hawthorne, Hardy. So my S read Sandra Cisneros, Tim O’Brien, Truman Capote instead of The Scarlet Letter or Tess D’Uberville. good. These were two books I hated for their sexism.</p>

<p>Marite–this is great! I love having a good lit conversation!</p>

<p>And, the first line is satire! Austen doesn’t think it’s at all a universal truth, and neither does Elizabeth. But I know you know that.</p>

<p>The thread has veered back and forth. As they always do.</p>

<p>If I’m going to participate in the thread any further, I should probably make a confession.</p>

<p>I’m not such a great fan of Dickens’ masterworks. I see many merits in them, but the ending of David Copperfield (among other moments) had me groaning in disbelief: “For crying out loud…you expect me to buy THIS?” Some of the coincidences are so ridiculous that they shake me right out of the world of the book.</p>

<p>Back to recommended reads for literate middle schoolers of both genders: The Chosen by Chaim Potok is one of my favorite novels in the world, probably coming in behind To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee. If you’ve got a scientifically-minded kid, the essay collections of Stephen Jay Gould are terrific literature wrapped around cool science and history. I started with “Bully for Brontosaurus”; “Dinosaur in a Haystack” is another great one. Austen fans who wish Jane had lived a lot longer will probably love Thackeray’s Vanity Fair. Ved Mehta’s memoirs, especially “Vedi” (about attending a school for the blind in Calcutta during the raj) is wonderful. Particularly for girls, I would recommend Gregory Maguire’s Wicked – my favorite eighth grader is in love with that book.</p>

<p>I recently had a long lunchtime conversation with a law professor over two novels we read as 10-11 year olds: The Great Gilly Hopkins and Bridge to Terabithia by Katherine Paterson. Each is an unvarnished, unpretty look at the life of a very smart kid in a crummy situation. If your kids – or you – didn’t read them in elementary school, check them out now; you will not find them too simple.</p>