CSS Profile: Mom and stepfather in process of separating.

Paying for College
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<p>From a financial aid perspective there is Harvard, with its $30 billion endowment and no one else comes close (Yale - 19 billion, Princeton/Stanford 17 billion, then 10 Billion from MIT). Harvard at #1 has an endowment that is 3X larger than the school in the #5 slot and 5 times bigger than the school in the #10 slot (and larger than schools 6-10 combined). Sorry, but financial aid at Harvard is a bad measuring stick when it comes to comparing financial aid policies.</p>

<p>[Universities</a> With the Largest Financial Endowments - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/2013/10/01/universities-with-the-largest-financial-endowments-colleges-with-the-largest-financial-endowments]Universities”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list-college/articles/2013/10/01/universities-with-the-largest-financial-endowments-colleges-with-the-largest-financial-endowments)</p>

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<p>Like I said, bad habit. ;)</p>

<p>Fortunately, most of Harvard’s peer institutions are just as generous with their financial aid. Of course, I don’t expect to get into Harvard or its peer institutions, and the the LACs that are my likely fits are a bit less able to pass around money.</p>

<p>Realize that I am doing all that I personally can. I’ve kept a 4.0 through all my hardships, with solid test scores, in a half-dozen clubs, etc. I am also writing application essays for a very large number of schools in order to have the luxury of weighing various financial aid offers. And if all else fails, I got my acceptance letter from a state school just this week. It’s overwhelmingly likely that I’ll get a full tuition scholarship there.</p>

<p>I don’t know that there’s anything else for me to do.</p>

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<p>I think you are doing a solid job. It was smart of you to have at least an appropriately affordable and acceptable alternative (a state school) just to have as a backup even if you want to go to somewhere else. You might win the lottery or do well in financial aid offers elsewhere!!</p>

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<p>^ Thanks for the encouragement! I see my mom tomorrow, so we’ll try to sort out the financial logistics then.</p>

<p>While I don’t have a shot at winning the real lottery, I am applying to HYP and for tuition scholarships at Vandy–so that’s four lottery tickets right there! :)</p>

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<p>My advice to you is to apply as you would and fill out the applications with explanations to your situation. See where you get accepted and what the aid packages come out to be. If it truly undoable, and you can see that it’s your step father’s numbers making a huge difference, request a gap year. Do volunteer work, oh, so much to do in a gap year, it should not be boring in the least. If you accept a school with generous fin aid policies that guarantee to meet need, the following year’s aid without your step father in the picture will make a big difference, is the idea. </p>

<p>I do not think it is worth it for you to take a $20K loan to go a year earlier, as the loan would not be subsidized in interest and very painful to repay. My son learned a painful lesson in the power of interest in paying back a $3500 loan he took. It 's taken him a very long time to repay and has cut into a lot of his spending options. He’ll think long and hard before borrowing again. Better you take a job, volunteer, do what you can in this gap year, and not rack up $20K plus interest that will continue to accrue for 4 more years. That’s my advice.</p>

<p>“Fortunately, most of Harvard’s peer institutions are just as generous with their financial aid”</p>

<p>I have trouble digesting that you wrote that as intelligent as you seem to be in stats, after what Sybbie just wrote. The fact is that, NO, Harvard’s peer institutions are NOT just as generous with fin aid. Absolutely not. Many of them us the PROFILE formula, and your father’s numbers will be added with your mother’s which will make for a bigger contribution than when they are assessed separately. You are likely to get a zero expected contribution from your father from Harvard and Princeton, possible Vanderbilt, but not so with many other schools You will see the difference yourself when you get your fin aid packages, if you are accepted to a number of such schools. H is a in a league of its own with fin aid and uses its own formulas where it is possible to get close to a full ride, no loans, even with pretty substantial incomes. Not so with other schools. I know many kids who are ekeing their ways through the ivies, UCh, JHU, Duke, because of split families where they figured the one parent who never had much to do with them and isn’t earning much is very much in the picture according to fin aid calculations. Also, it can be a challenge even getting a NCP to fill out all of those forms. Many just don’t do it and cause a halt to the fin aid process. The schools are not going to take your workd for what his earnings and assets are. Your dad is going to fill out the forms and will likely get some verification through tax forms. My friend’s kids got NO aid because their dad refused to cooperate. SImply refused to fill out the forms. Too bad. </p>

<p>Some real lotteries have better odds than acceptance and great aid packages from the top schools. </p>

<p>Do think about the gap year. It would make this year a trial run–you pick the most generous and best offer, defer entry for a year, and then your fin aid picture might be clearer them. I know a number of students who have had to do this. My friend had her one Daughter take a year off junior year as well as her son defer and take a gap year instead of starting college because of a lump sum payout that schools refused to consider as a one time thing, and made it a $40K difference in grants at the schools her son was accepted and daughter was attending. Too much of a difference. They took the time off and even worked, put the savings in a joint account with parent’s name and ssn first so the assets were not counted and returned/went to school with a big difference in fin aid. My friend had had two in college for a number of years and knew well how it worked. No reason to spend that kind of money because of special circumstances in a year that the schools refuse to take into account that disappears in the next year. Yes, $40K savings. Plus another $20K savings in that she had her oldest delay school a year to have two in college for the first two years that the second daughter was in college. These strategies saved her $60K in college costs at very expensive schools.</p>

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<p>cptofthehouse, thanks for your anecdote.</p>

<p>That Harvard’s rivals are nearly as generous in their aid–enough to make them affordable options for me–is an objective truth based on their average aid grants. That said, very few universities can reasonably be called peers to Harvard. I do realize, and said that I realized, that I will receive less generous aid from schools that are my likely fits, like Kenyon and Vassar and even Vanderbilt.</p>

<p>Therefore I will carefully consider taking a gap year should all my financial lottery tickets turn out to be duds. Though I’m curious which “real lotteries have better odds” than Harvard’s 5.8% acceptance rate, or even my 1.2% chance of a full merit scholarship at Kenyon.</p>

<p>My circumstances aren’t quite as critical as your children’s friends, for my stepmother has maintained a relationship with me and is happy to fill out the NC PROFILE and any other financial aid forms. Further, their income is more modest than you may realize, especially considering that my dad is providing for his wife and two young kids. He may even be able to contribute $2500 to $5000 if absolutely necessary–I’ll ask my stepmom next week.</p>

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<p>It’s not what your father can truly contribute, it what the schools deem he should be able to contribute. That is the issue with fin aid. Once the forms are all filled out and in there, you can see what the outcome is and where the sticking point is with the fin aid </p>

<p>Yes, Harvard’s accept rate along with that of the other highly selective schools make it a long shot as you gotta get in to get that aid. My SIL did go to Harvard and for her, their aid package was WAY more generous when the final numbers were on the table than her other options. It was not even close. Astonishingly more thatn other Ivies and highly selective schools. She got a no loan package from them that was particularly sweet and they basically exempted her parent’s pay in entirety which none of the other schools did. So see how it goes. I also know someone who got a big fat goose egg from H though his income was modest. and his son did get accepted. He made his money on rents from apartments he owned, and H did not care that selling any of them meant losing income for keeps and threatened his retirement as those were his pensions as well. Appeal and discussions, all came to naught. They would not budge. So he did not think H was so generous. Until the offers are on the table, it’s all air talk.</p>

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<p>Your dad’s new household is an average size. His contribution is not going to be significantly impacted because he has two kids and a wife. None of those kids are in college…where the real savings in family contribution comes.</p>

<p>You mention “average” grants. Be very careful with these averages. Remember that with averages, there are those who get significantly LESS and those who get MORE. You have no way of knowing which way YOU will fall on those averages.</p>

<p>In my opinion, the ONLY school that comes close to Harvard in terms of generosity for need based aid is Stanford. </p>

<p>But you have to be accepted to benefit from their generous aid! 95% of applicants do NOT get accepted, and in that rejected group are a ton of very well qualified applicants. </p>

<p>If you have an affordable sure thing in your application pile, you are fine. </p>

<p>Just be VERY prepared to walk away from any school where the money does not come through.</p>

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<p>Denlah, if it is possible for you to move some of your savings into your state’s 529, I would urge you to do so before you fill out that Profile. Obviously, choose a conservative investment option since you only have a year to go. Money in 529s is the one category that I know of that is assessed at the parent rate of 5.6% even if the money is in the student’s name. You can check your state’s plan to see if there’s a limit on how much you can put in in one year. If you are competitive for meet-full-need schools, it can make a difference of thousands. </p>

<p>As far as what percentage Profile and Fafsa use… The schools you’ve mentioned use both Fafsa and Profile to come up with their own Efc. Fafsa does come up with an EFC (which assesses student assets at 20%) but Profile doesn’t. Theoretically, a school could ignore assets but, in reality, they are generally using Profile to get a fuller picture of resources before giving their own money. Student assets are generally thought of as being available to fund student education-- especially when that student is a single person with no dependents. In other words, the school realizes that any money your parents have saved up needs to go toward a variety of things: other kids, emergency fund, car/ house repairs and maintenance, etc. But a student of college age in a middle-class family is expected to be able to bank on mom and dad for an emergency and, as such, can pretty much spend down his savings on college. If the family was very poor and the student was contributing to the household, the top colleges may be more sympathetic (one of my kids had a classmate on full financial aid who worked at college and regularly sent home money to help support mom and younger siblings) but I think the top schools will all assess your savings at 20% or pretty close to that.</p>

<p>One other thing: Kenyon is not need-blind for admissions. You do sound like a strong candidate but you should take that into account.</p>

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<p>Thank you everyone for your continued help. I understand, cptofthehouse and thumper1, that financial aid at any university is a case of “your mileage may vary.” The only solution I know for this is to apply to more colleges, especially those that have the lowest cost of attendance after average grant awards. That is what I am doing.</p>

<p>Further, I do realize that merely gaining acceptance into the likes of Harvard is a long shot. When I brought up Harvard it was to note that I had erred by using it as a basis for my generalizations, which has now been established thoroughly.</p>

<p>Thank you 2collegewego for suggesting 529 plans; I’ll mention that to Mom tomorrow. If all else fails, she can consult with her attorney to find the best way to shelter my money without it being affected in the divorce. For although I do plan to pay for college with the money, it’s the only money that anyone in my family has saved. Thus, if 20% of my savings is reduced from my financial grant each year, then (0.8)^4 = only 41% of my savings that can actually substantially contribute to lowering my family’s expense. The other 59% is effectively eaten up.</p>

<p>Do you guys have any other wisdom to impart on me, or do I now know everything about the process that would help me take meaningful action?</p>

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<p>Denlah, in that you have a second shot at it , if you get accepted somewhere that you love but the aid is based on your step dad’s income and assets, and they won’t budge, use that. You can look at what the the array of costs are. It’s really surprising how much variance there is even in like schools that assert they use the same methodology. II agree that transferring your money into a 529 in your name is a good idea as some schools do hit up student assets even more than the FAFSA 20%, and will track those assets for the entire time the student is in college, assumeing a given amount of that initial amount.</p>

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<p>Something like this was asked a couple of years ago. </p>

<p>I would call each schools’ FA office and ask them for advice.</p>

<p>the schools that this student called told the student that they didn’t expect the “separated step parent” to contribute, so somehow his income wasn’t used. But, each school is different and I don’t remember what exactly the schools said.</p>

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<p>Mom2collegekids, do you know if the student contacted the schools’ FA offices before or after receiving an acceptance letter and initial FA offer?</p>

<p>P.S., congrats on 50,000 posts. :D</p>

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<p>^^^
those details are fuzzy. I would contact them now because they’ve likely faced this before.</p>

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<p>Re: post four. Articulation agreements are usually between community colleges and four year colleges. They are NOT between four year colleges and OTHER four year colleges.</p>