current drinking age laws don't make sense

Parent Cafe
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<p>I hope that from your use of a smiley you know that wasn’t what I meant. You insinuated that the reason for not allowing a law which permitted kids to drink under a parent’s supervision would be because of the possibility of utterly irresponsible behavior by certain parents, who are probably already doing the ridiculous things you detailed. That doesn’t mean that there would be no benefit in allowing for such a law so that responsible drinking, with supervision, can be modeled and learned.</p>

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<p>“allowing for such a law so that responsible drinking, with supervision, can be modeled and learned.”</p>

<p>You know that this currently IS the law, right? I think that that’s the case in every state.</p>

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<p>I wasn’t aware that it was the law in every state. It seems that every time this discussion arises on CC, there are many people who comment that it is not the law where they live.</p>

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<p>People may not know what the law is. But if anyone has a cite to a state or local law barring parents from drinking wine with their kids, I’m very interested to learn about that. (Is there some kind of exception for Communion/Passover wine?)</p>

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<p>I’m not really sure what the law is in PA in regards to social drinking. I wouldn’t feel comfortable serving my kids anything including wine so have not really looked into it. We just don’t drink wine with dinner so it would be out of the ordinary to whip some out and offer it up to the kids.</p>

<p>Alwaysamom, Yes, I was just kidding you, hope you don’t mind.</p>

<p>I found this when I googled, “Pennsylvania drinking laws, parents”</p>

<p>[Underage</a> drinking laws take aim at parents](<a href=“http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=15799]Underage”>http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=15799) </p>

<p>"The drinking age is 21 in each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia. All states prohibit adults from purchasing alcohol for minors or furnishing it to them, though most make exceptions for children partaking in religious ceremonies and those given alcohol in non-intoxicating amounts by parents in private homes. </p>

<p>When it comes to underage drinking parties, many counties, cities and towns adopted zero-tolerance policies for youth possession and consumption years ago. Social host laws widen the scope of enforcement to make parents responsible when they allow minors to possess or consume alcohol. </p>

<p>An adult can face probation, steep fines and jail time and can be sued for damages caused by minors who drank under the adult’s supervision."</p>

<p>Just found this, but they didn’t site the law, so not sure of the original source:</p>

<p>[Debate</a> on kids, drinking - York, Pennsylvania](<a href=“In York”>In York)
" It is a crime in Pennsylvania for an adult to provide alcohol to minors, or for an adult who allows a minor to possess it on a “premises or property owned or controlled by the person in charge.” Fines are $1,000 to $2,500 for the first violation and $2,500 thereafter.</p>

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<p>The power of google… This site states the drinking laws state by state with some omissions, one of them being …PA!</p>

<p>[National</a> Youth Rights Association - Drinking Age and Alcohol Laws for All 50 States](<a href=“http://www.youthrights.org/dastatelist.php]National”>http://www.youthrights.org/dastatelist.php)</p>

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<p>I’m in the moral deontologist camp and am quite uneasy with consequentialism, which seem highly dangerous. Supposed “positive effects” that both infringe on liberty and moral principles take a shortcut to justice and will have hidden negative effects. (Ce qu’on voit et ce qu’on ne voit pas.) Of course, I’m speaking as a naive 18-year-old.</p>

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<p>In Pennsylvania, it is a criminal offense to serve anyone under 21 any beverage with an alcohol content of .5% or greater. Yep, that’s right, one half of one percent! This includes so called “non-alcoholic” beers if their contents hit the .5% mark. The ONLY exception is for religious ceremonial purposes in the privacy of one’s home or in a house of worship and even then the amount served must be reasonable and limited to the amount normally consumed for such purposes. (See chapter 63 of the PA Criminal Code.)</p>

<p>The problem with a law that relegates alcohol to the category of an age based status offense (i.e. conduct that is otherwise lawful is criminalized based on age) is that such a law ducks the real issues that need to be addressed. It is an easy “quick fix” which enables our legislators and communities to feel like they are acting responsibly when in actuality what is needed is a family and community based system of parenting and support that teaches responsible decision making to our kids and does not criminalize them for minor indiscretions. There is nothing magical about hitting 21 notwithstanding the “studies” that “prove” the efficacy of such laws (many of which are designed to establish the preconceived notion that such laws are the right solution or otherwise lack real scientific controls). Moreover, an approach of aged based criminalization ignores the reality that such laws are easy to evade and that upon hitting 21, a person often is as unprepared to consume alcohol responsibly as they were at 18 or even 16. The amount of drinking that goes on behind cover in high school, the excessive drinking that so frequently occurs at colleges, make clear that stigmatizing our kids with criminalization, while an “easy fix”, is not the right answer. It doesn’t solve the problem, it just makes us “feel good” about doing something. What is needed is good effective parenting and community support systems that teach kids to make smart responsible decisions. But that takes a whole lot of effort, commitment, understanding thought and time, things that have fallen out of favor in a society that has become increasingly judgmental of our youth and in need of “quick fixes” for complex issues.</p>

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<p>Shouldn’t they regulate drinks based on molar mass of ethanol consumed?</p>

<p>I mean, I’m sure 6 cans of .5% and 1 can of 3% will turn out to be the same thing. I don’t know what the “molar mass of ethanol consumed to blood alcohol level increase” formula is (though it is true that the rate of molar mass consumed over time is also an important factor besides pure quantity), but a ration card with personal ID makes more sense if you want to regulate blood alcohol levels.</p>

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<p>You are assuming there’s any real science to these aged based laws, as opposed to concepts of “morality”, fear and a desire to have a simple quick “fix” to a perceived problem. What you are suggesting would take a level of thought, resources and administrative functioning that we, as a society, are unwilling or incapable of committing. (Also, 6 x .5 is not the same as 1 x 3 when you factor in rate of consumption and time to metabolize the alcohol.)</p>

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<p>There can be science to morality – maybe I just subscribe too much to Kantian ethics.</p>

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<p>ok… bumping this up to ask a related question. Hopefully some of you California folks can help me out.</p>

<p>Hypothetically, if we were to travel to California, and do a wine country tour, with our 19-year old (and 21-year old), how could we expect (legally) the wineries to treat her? Would she be allowed to wine taste under our supervision? I’m having a hard time finding the rules, because the wineries are not necessarily ‘selling’ the taste-test to us. Wineries must have a policy regarding this, but for the life of me, I can’t find it.</p>

<p>D1 took a beer and wine appreciation class last semester at school, and D2 is just finishing up professional bartending school tomorrow (plan B for someone majoring in the performing arts and needs a source of income that allows for flexibility in work schedule). I thought it would be a fun thing to do if this trip works out.</p>

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<p>I don’t know about the wine rules but when my kids were little we took them to a local winery and they tasted the different grape juices they had there. So did we. We ended up buying some because it was different than the typical Welches.</p>

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<p>OP hit the nail on the head. Drinking is not the problem. Binge drinking is. Having in my time attended a lot of college parties in the US and in Europe and over time, knowing many many students, my observation has been that European students (where drinking alcohol moderately within the family occurs from a young age) drink socially but never have I seen a European drink to get drunk. That’s not to say that there aren’t people with alcohol problems or who may get drunk after some kind of all day celebration. However, I have seen many US college parties where the purpose of the party seemed to be how much you could drink, a group circling the keg, etc. We hear all too frequently of students dying of alcohol intoxication, and I’m sure there are other alcohol related deaths, not to mention driving drunk.</p>

<p>You can’t legislate people to behave responsibly.</p>

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<p>tango14:

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<p>I’ve been to most countries in western Europe, and I have seen many people drink to get drunk there. From my experience, overall there isn’t much of a difference with what you would find here. Statistics on binge drinking here versus over there may support something different, but I just want to say that there certainly are lots of Europeans who like to get drunk.</p>

<p>An important matter to consider in this discussion is research which shows younger brains as more susceptible to damage from alcohol consumption. </p>

<p>Another issue is that the closer a young adult becomes to the mid-twenties in age, the better he or she will be at decisionmaking. Take a younger brain and add a substance which even in moderate amounts could relax executive functioning, and you have a potentially dangerous situation.</p>