<p>I know exactly what im talking about. I never said the job was easy or hard. I simply said there should be no minimum wage laws and wages should be solely determined by the market. I see nothing wrong with a McDonald’s worker making a $.25 a hour or less.</p>
<p>I remember only a couple of occasions when H and I did not leave a tip, because the dining experience was a nightmare, and the waiter clearly contributed to that (how would you like to eat food that your server just repositioned on the plate with his fingers or given you the spoon that he dropped on the floor a second earlier :eek:). Needless to say, we never returned to those places.</p>
<p>We tip at least 20%- generally- unless the service is really pedestrian then it is 15%.</p>
<p>If we can’t afford to go out, then we go to a sandwich place where you just put a buck or two in the jar- plenty of places like that- you don’t have to have a cloth napkin every time you go out.</p>
<p>Lots of restaurants have closed in Seattle- some high end places that have been open for 10 or more years.
But I don’t see that as tragic, I see it as the market responding.
Now if those places are filled by some chain from California selling $10 hamburgers * that would be unpalatable*, but we have lots of small, great places that are hopping.</p>
<p>Being a waitress is hard work, I have never done that particular job- not ever having much of a short term memory, or being coordinated enough not to break things- but I have known lots of people who have, in their own and other peoples restaurants.</p>
<p>One of my favorite people of all time- for example ( who I am getting to hear tonight :D), Michael McCready worked in restaurants before he was rich and famous,( actually in a restaurant of a friend of mine- except I didn’t know him at the time) and from what I hear, not only tips very well, but has invited the servers who are also fans to sit down with him and chat.
<B</p>
<p>RE minimum wage-
I recognize that it is difficult to get a business started- however- you wouldn’t run a business at a loss ( not for long), and no one should be expected to work under conditions that do not respect the worker.
That includes conditions that are unsafe, stressful etc, without full disclosure and monetary compensation.
( Like with the translators who have been sent into war zones)</p>
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</p>
<p>The personification of miserly.</p>
<p>I guess birdeye doesn’t like McDonald’s, because they’re all going to close due to lack of workers. No one would work for free, and a quarter an hour is free.</p>
<p>I’d rather see restaurants figure the cost of service into their pricing, but until they do I will tip 15 - 20% (based on the service). When it’s counter service or drive thru service, I’ll often leave my coin change in the jar. Of course, these days I can’t go out anywhere in town without seeing someone my kids know working there, and I’m a sucker for my kids and their friends.</p>
<p>Ah yes, I remember waiting on BirdEye back in '78, more than once…don’t ask me what I did to get even…I don’t think the statute of limitations have expired yet. ;)</p>
<p>We are doing like oldfort: we consume less but tip more to compensate. We always figure the worker has less financial leeway than the owner and it might bring more cheerful service to the next customer.</p>
<p>Birdeye is perfectly entitled to his viewpoint that the market should set wages and tips are earned, not entitled. There is a large reporting bias in threads like this - those whose viewpoints are charitable are more likely to report their stances and that’s fine, but to foist one’s views in demanding how others tip or how others view proper wages is inappropriate.</p>
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<p>Working 12 h/day, every day for a year, this person would earn only enough rent for one month.</p>
<p>You make me sad.</p>
<p>The minimum wage makes wages artificial, it allows people to stay at the same job for very long times, not progressing at all. All of this is incredibly drastic both to that individual and the country in general. To the individual because they have assumed that it is satisfactory to be 55 being a lifer at the local super market. To the country because it hurts us competitively compared to other counties in which we compete with. It also hurts everybody, because it forces the inflation of the money supply.</p>
<p>It is my view, that goods and services would be drastically cheaper for everybody, if we did not set the artificial minimum wage. Those that would, lets say make a lower wage would still be able to buy the same proportion of goods and services. The reason for this, is that the market dictates the prices of the supply based solely on the demand for them. If there was no demand(nobody could afford the products) then those companies would go out of business. So the rate at which people would buy those products would be the same or greater. Greater because without the minimum wage, we would have one less reason to have inflation. As you know Inflation weakens your buying power. if the govt couldn’t systematically raise the minimum wage, they they would have to worry about how the Federal reserve deals with Inflation. </p>
<p>So in the end the minimum wage, is a justification of for Inflation. The minimum wage is there solely to keep people afloat, while allowing the govt and the fed to inflate the money supply. </p>
<p>While many of you may not care about this as you are able to live your life happily, lets look at some numbers directly from [CPI</a> Inflation Calculator](<a href=“Redirect Notice”>Redirect Notice)</p>
<p>$1 in 1913 is equivalent to $21.79 in 2009.</p>
<p>That same Dollar lost 95.4% of its value. While you may not care, some certainly do.</p>
<p>Just to move slightly off-topic, how do you all feel about tip jars in places like Dunkin Donuts or ice cream parlors, where, unlike waiters, the employees are covered by minimum wage laws? I don’t understand why I should be tipping in these places (so usually don’t), any more than I should be tipping the person who waits on me in a shoe store or drugstore. Tip jars are a relatively recent phenomenon, at least in my experience, and I just don’t get it. My son was a Starbucks barista one summer, and was the beneficiary of shared tips, despite a wage that was perfectly respectable for that sort of job. Nice for him, but darned if I know why he deserved the extra cash for just doing what he was hired to do.</p>
<p>MommaJ, I know what you mean. I almost never put money in a tip jar at an ice cream parlor or a coffee shop. I mean, how else am I going to get my order…scoop it/pour it myself?! If I’m at a restaurant I always tip generously. At least there I have a choice; I can get carryout or choose to dine in. The only time I tip at a store is if the employee goes above and beyond his/her job. Sometimes I’ll have a complex or inconvenient order and the employee is extremely nice about it despite that, then I feel like they deserve a little bonus.</p>
<p>I agree with BodaciousG. I find the tip jars irritating at places like ice cream parlors and coffeeshops where they don’t deliver your order to your table.</p>
<p>Even in the present economy, a tip is in order for good service. Back in school, I worked as a waitress (as did many of my friends), so I have always been a very generous tipper. This goes for others too (hotel maids, etc)</p>
<p>Birdeye…don’t know what your pay is or your job…but using your logic, you should not be getting paid more than a few dollars an hour to do whatever you do. OH…and no benefits either…why should you get THOSE for doing your job?</p>
<p>Thumper, wages determined by the market. When I say this I mean there is a direct correlation between the amount you get paid and the supply of the workers for that given job. As an example, a neurosurgeon gets paid very high wage, solely because he is of a small subset of society that is capable with the skills to do that job. He benefits society more, so he gets paid more. The McDonald’s worker gets paid a lower wage, the lower wage is there because the subset of society that is capable of doing that job is quite large. Everybody even the neurosurgeon is capable of doing that job. </p>
<p>While one may have trouble raising a family on minimum wage, we have to ask ourselves why the hell are they making minimum wage if they are over 25. The rate of pay follows directly with education and experience, somebody who is older should be getting paid more then somebody who is younger. Jobs like at a fast food place, should be for new workers, not 45 year olds. If a 45 year old is working at McDonald’s, then they really have no tried to advance themselves in anyway, which is bad. While the minimum wage may not be able to support a family of 4, it is perfectly adequate for somebody under 25, who is in school, looking to better themselves to move into a smaller subset of society. </p>
<p>If the number of people who can do my job is that high then, id be glad to only make a few bucks a hour. It is my responsibility to keep my skills in order, while advancing myself so that I get paid more. I do this and would still make much more than a few dollars a hour.</p>
<p>As for the tip jars where people get at least minimum - sometimes I drop my coin change in them. It’s not much, but the staff is being paid adequately. (I never put bills in, though). </p>
<p>I didn’t used to drop anything in, until I did a “volunteer” stint in a refreshment booth at a professional sports event, to raise money for a school booster group. The booth paid an hourly wage for each worker, but they paid it directly to the booster group. Someone put a jar on the counter with a sign that said, “Our H.S. Music Boosters, Thank You!” At the end of the night, I was shocked how much money that jar added up to! (We gave all the money to the Music Boosters, of course). So now when I see kids the same age as mine working at counters, or I see adults working there to support their families, if the workers are pleasant and prompt, I’ll leave my coins in the jar. Even minimum wage ain’t getting anybody rich (sorry Birdeye), and by the end of the day it could add up to a nice bonus. Of course, if the workers are surly or slow, I keep my nickels for myself ;-)</p>
<p>Birdeye, SOMEBODY has to do these low wage jobs. You think if a person goes to college to better themselves, a higher wage job will magically appear for them? If everyone “advanced” themselves, who is going to flip burgers, or clean hotel rooms, or sweep the streets? Low skill jobs exist because the work needs to be done. There are a lot of very educated people right now making minimum wage at Home Depot and McDonalds to support their families because the high-paying job they trained for disappeared, but the low skill jobs still exist because the work needs to be done. I am one Economics major (Magna Cum Laude, thank you very much) who doesn’t think that Adam Smith and the Invisible Hand is always the right answer to everything. Sometimes the free market is a great thing. But if the free market meant that the person working behind the counter at McDonalds is living under a bridge because they can’t pay rent even in the poorest section of town with a roommate… I have a little more human compassion than that.</p>
<p>In this era of increasing government regulations, perhaps our good Prez and his Congress could introduce legislation that ends the “tipping” debate. After all, if it is so important to change the entire healh care, it might be equally important to protect the hordes of people who live from tips and low wages in the restaurants. </p>
<p>It would be good for the waiters to know that all checks will be considered to be a party of 6, and include an european-like 15%. Further, it would be good for the government that is desperate to find revenues for its new follies to also add a tax onto the tips, and ensuring that all what is consumed is taxed. Just as im Europe, every consumer should be presented an official receipt and an official tax receipt. </p>
<p>While there are some benefit for the world of waiters, it would also place an end to the ridiculous expectations of the waitstaff a certain establishments. It appears that many waiters believe that a 13 dollar check should be rounded to 20, a 6 dollar take-out should get a minimum 2-3 dollar tip, and that it is reasonable to tip at least 30 dollars for a meal that includes wine for a cost of $100.00. I find such rhetoric worst than the occasional cheap tipper.</p>
<p>Another vote with Sue. I’ve been known to run out to the car and scrounge coins out of the seats in order to make the tip generous enough.</p>
<p>Waiting tables full-time is hard work; I appreciate the folks who do it and love the folks who do it well and pleasantly. And everyone over 12 knows that wait staff are underpaid to account for tips. I tip generously, speak politely, and leave the table as neat as I can, and am very happy that my son does the same (he kind of prides himself on charming the wait staff :)). I also tip the bartender when I pick up takeout food – they work crazy hard in the evenings, and it’s just my way of saying thanks.</p>
<p>For health reasons, we eat at restaurants infrequently and tend to visit the same ones over and over when we do. Nice thing about being pleasant customers and generous tippers is you get remembered and you get great service – at most places we go, right after we walk in and sit down, our drinks are on the table and the waiter remembers what we like. Even when we haven’t been in for a month!</p>
<p>Like TutuTaxi, I made dating decisions based on how the guy tipped. Also on whether he treated the waiter like a servant (“gimme a cheeseburger”) or like a person providing a service (“I’d like a cheeseburger, please, and would you please put the ketchup on the side?”). I agree wholeheartedly with BirdEye about the minimum wage, but I think that if I’d ever been on a date with him, I might have palmed the waiter a 10-spot and walked home.</p>
<p>As to xiggi’s comment above… first, please don’t give Washington any ideas – do you really want to see a “tip czar” appointed and pay yet another parasitic tax for which the government provides no benefit whatsoever? And second, a waiter who holds those ridiculous expectations will get a tip of 15% to the penny from me, and I won’t be back to his table.</p>