Daily Princetonian Makes Fun of Stereotypical Asian Students

Applying to College
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It all depends upon context, especially after discovering some of the authors were black themselves. In this “Joke Issue” I likely would have assumed the whole thing was a joke, a spoof on black stereotypes, much like the Airplane spoof on black English with subtitles. I would have been looking for the article to exploit this sort of thing, cleverly. And if it failed, or crossed some inappropriate line (as I thought happened with the Prince article), I would have simply said it failed, written to show how it cross the line, hoped for an apology, and then left it at that. I certainly would not be running around here saying how the whole school is “racist”, and how the newspaper is “racist” when its editor in chief is Asian himself. The thing was a mistake. I would have understood this.</p>

<p>Actually some of that article was really funny, if we could just step back and enjoy it for what it is. I thought this was very much like the Airplane scene:</p>

<p>Dean of Admission Janet Rapelye say, “Anything that seems unfair is under scrutiny.” Hello? Ni hao ma? Does Rapelye have any idea what unfair means? Did she have to be work on the Union Pacific railroads and haul ass? I don’t think so. Woman.</p>

<p>Now yall know that is really funny, and it doesn’t put down Asians. It is drumming up history, stereotypes, and poking fun with it all. It is not malicious in the least. So, I enjoyed it. I would have enjoyed it had it cleverly dealt in black stereotypes. Here is another thing I thought was pretty funny:</p>

<p>Then she have nerve to say my outside activities were “not all that outstanding.” What do you mean not outstanding? I make record for number of science fairs entered. I stay after school with Mu Alpha Theta eight hours everyday after school to memorize the 2,309,482,039,482,309 digits of pi. I play yo-yo. I memorize William Hung dance for college application video (See <a href=“http://www.youtube.com%5B/url%5D”>www.youtube.com</a> for my peformance. Aleksey Vayner’s dance scene almost as good as mine. Almost.). I play in New Jersey Youth Orchestra five years in row. Violin, piano, viola, clarinet and cello. All at same time. Not oustanding? Ai yah.</p>

<p>Think about it. All of this stuff the caricature is claiming is superhuman stuff. He has done it all, and yet Rapelye claims its not outstanding. It plays into the stereotype of the Asian who grinds away at all this stuff, but with no real point except to boast about it. It is not malicious in the sense of saying Asians are just inferior or ugly or stupid. Had blacks this sort of stereotype and we made fun of it, I would certainly laugh. Indeed, [here</a> is a stereotype of blacks]( <a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xEzGIuY7kw]here”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xEzGIuY7kw) that is very similar, BUT MUCH WORSE, and though I see right through it, how devastating it is to us as blacks, I still see the humor of it. This guy is claiming blacks are gangsters, and that he, being white and nerdy, can’t fit in with them. That is pretty hard stuff. But it is funny.</p>

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I think the apology was slower because several of these people are Asians themselves and were probably very much in shock about the response. We have here a disjunction of expectations. I think we have nothing more than this. Certainly it is inappropriate to call these kids “racists”, and so I think they were right to reject the allegation. I do not think they are anymore racist than Weird Al is. </p>

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I don’t know how these guys would react. They aren’t whining about blacks being seen as gangsters in Weird Al’s thing. There are PLENTY of cases of black stereotypes being exploited in similar fashion, and yet I hear nothing from Al or Jesse. I personally think if these guys were to react as Asians here are reacting, they make themselves bigger clowns than they already are. But that is just me.</p>

<p>I think we need to cut these folks some slack and see this episode as they apparently saw it. They were wrong for two reasons. Some of the humor didn’t quite make it. So it seemed they were poking fun at Asians, when they were really poking fun at the stereotype. I think someone should have written them to point out this fact (I did), and to tell them not to ever leave their day job for a job in humor. But calling them or Princeton racist is just going WAAAAAYYY too far. The second reason the article was wrong is that is hit pretty close to stuff that probably does embarrass a lot of Asians – such as Asians eating dogs and things like that. We need to be sensitive to these things and not hit so hard – not because of PC, but because of respect and decency.</p>

<p>Still, claiming these folks racists, even here, is just too much. It seems to me they made a mistake. We’ve told them about it. And they have owned up to it. I’m good. I’d be good even if the article were about watermelon eating blacks. LOL</p>

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<p>Like I said, what he does is his perview. As for admissions discrimination, every group feels that way.</p>

<p>And for Asian-Americans and admissions, a holistic application process that considers socioeconomic background, gender, ethnicity, EC’s, grades, scores, recs, etc…, in my view, is more desirable than one that is more heavily based on test scores. As for socioeconomically challenged Asians, a holistic process considers that to varying degrees depending on the colleges institutional needs. Also, at some schools which consider ethnicity, Southeast Asians are given a ‘bump’ by Adcoms.</p>

<p>And, if the courts find against Li, the organizational mantra of those who are not satisfied with that outcome would be that there was discrimination. If the courts find for Li, the mantra for those who are upset by it will be something that points to whether courts should be engines of social change.</p>

<p>I don’t necessarily like Princeton’s newspaper satire issue, but Li is the face of how American culture places an (over)emphasis on particular institutions, for better or worse. Li positioned himself by reasoning that his ethnicity was what barred him from Princeton (even though he got in elsewhere), rather than ANY other factor(s) that made-up his candidacy for a spot at the school. </p>

<p>He perhaps relied on his group affiliation and its seemingly obvious dienfrancisment to gain political support of Asian/white (while neatly taking advantage of the social climate in some states against the use ethnicity in holistic college admissions). </p>

<p>At the macro-level, will his case result in less discrimination against Asians (whether he wins or not)? I’m not sure. He may be seen as a hero to the Asian community or an example of how opportunistic Asians (as a group) can supposedly be. Think about your initial reactions to the filing of his case. Most people have a knee-jerk reaction that falls on one side or another, depending on whether your group is affected by it or it matches up with how you percieve being treated in the admissions process. </p>

<p>Some whites (at both the macro and micro level) who believe that the reason minorities get into competitive colleges will use Asians to fend of critizms of bias, while Asian individualists who do not want to affiliate themselves with any Asian group may be appalled. Other Asians who believe that their group as a whole is being discriminated against will applaud, while other minority groups will realize that there will be greater balkanization of the macro-minority grouping in the U.S. and be upset. It is the push-and-pull of the individual/group, fair/unfair, and good/bad distinctions that make Li’s suit the subject of both redicule and praise. Li is taking a calculated political and social risk on behalf of all of us–as the desirable and undesirable effects on the sociopolitical fabric within and outside of the minority community are yet to be determined. </p>

<p>Do I want an affluent East Asian individual from the East Coast who got into other peer institutions besides Princeton be a spokes person and the face for lower-income, Southeast Asian, Portland, Oregon kids who are applying other colleges? Not necessarily. Why? Because the suit ASSUMES that Asians are alike at the group level, even when they can be treated or seen as unique individuals through the holistic admissions process. Because the strength of Li’s suit lies in a collective Asian GROUP identity to prove bias, it can be argued that it reinforces the Asian stereotypes of uniformity, SAT score performance, lack of passion, etc…as defined by the majority, whether true or not.</p>

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<p>Fab:</p>

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<p>Actually, the arguement was that the most drastic enrollement swings would be at the flagship campuses of the UC system, which makes citizens against the proposition, depending on the group, more right than wrong. The net effect, being that they were ‘right.’</p>

<p>The answer to the question, at least for me, is indeterminant–arguable both ways. Fallacy of Composition. The macro effect in the UC system is indeed different than the micro effects of the individual schools. Thus, false and true, are not adequate choices.</p>

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That is because this is moron math here. Kids are just seeing meaningless symbols and being asked to memorize and vomit them back out with no real meaning behind it. It is barbaric. Surely, there is a place for rote learning. But to base an entire system on it kills creativity as sure as putting a bullet in a human’s heart kills the human.</p>

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This is only a part of the optimum process in my view. Only a very small part of it. With my own kids, I myself (hold on… daughter is calling. Need to see how her Chem final went…</p>

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<p>Drosselmeier, I think the fact that <em>you</em> find most of it funny does say something about your particular racial sensitivity towards Asian-Americans, which colors everything you posted. And no, to point to a South Asian editor on their staf isn’t a get-out-of-jail-free racial card, are you saying that Asians cannot be bigots to other Asians? </p>

<p>Hey, why don’t you regale us here with <em>more</em> of the sort of funny jokes you enjoy, you know ching chong-ching chong, buck teeth, etc.?</p>

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<p>Too busy, Fabrizio. Will try hard to get back to you friend.</p>

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<p>“Do I want an affluent East Asian individual from the East Coast who got into other peer institutions besides Princeton be a spokes person and the face for lower-income, Southeast Asian, Portland, Oregon kids who are applying other colleges? Not necessarily.”</p>

<p>Again, you’re missing the forest for the tree. You really <em>insist</em> on narrowing the whole issue down to the person of Jian Li, don’t you?</p>

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Well. I am able o see the article as the authors saw it. And so I see the humor they saw without getting weird about it. Had it been about blacks, I would have been able to do likewise. I see no intentional malice here. I see only error.</p>

<p>gotta go.</p>

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<p>Poiuyt:</p>

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<p>Actually, I do, IF the issue is defined as Li wanting to be viewed as an individual (to Princeton or other competitive colleges that use a holistic approach to admissions). IF the purpose is to gain political power for Asians as a group, then the suit should go forward, because it depends on conformity of the Asian group as a whole. IF the suit was broadened to include public schools which favor particular groups (i.e. in-state applicants, legacies, etc…) then I would be more supportive. If Li recognized that there were possibly other factors that may have contribute to the decision by the Princeton adcome that HE was not worthy of the admit pile, rather than assert that HIS candidacy was somewhat representative of ALL Asians, I’d have a different view.</p>

<p>As for trees in the forest…I do believe that it is possible to see both the micro and macro, and their compatability/incompatibilities in an ecosystem. That is without controlled growth, the forest might over-run other kinds of trees or be kindling for a forest fire.</p>

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<p>Ah, ok, it’s really ALL about you and the authors of the piece, isn’t it? If you find it funny to mock Asians about washing white laundry, or their grievances about their slave laborers, it is <em>your</em> prerogative to make laugh-out-loud fodder about them and their experiences. If you say it ain’t racist, then it ain’t, their protests be damned! You’re not a racist…just someone who doesn’t give a flying fig about how the group at the receiving end of your derision, the butt of the joke, collectively feel. And if they don’t “feel” like you think they <em>should</em>, man, that just shows what uptight jerks they are.</p>

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That’s why AP exams make me laugh. With the exception of a very small portion of the science exams, IB exams are entirely open-ended. They test comprehension, not regurgitation. For example, the English exam consists of writing an essay completely analyzing the given passage. </p>

<p>By the way, I love how affirmative action threads invariably bring out new and short-lived posters like cockroaches swarming from an overturned garbage can.</p>

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<p>IsleBoy, I’m tired of going round in convoluted circles with you. It’s a start, all of your “ifs” may or may not follow, but all journeys begin with the first, etc., etc… I have thought this over, and you know, after the years of whining from the AA community about this, finally, an AA with the guts to actually file a suit about it, defying the passive model minority stereotype, and for his trouble, his race/culture becomes a free-for-all for vicious jokes scavengers. There is something seriously wrong with this picture, and what’s worse, the small outcry is immediately met with the usual stereotypical Asian inadequacy/humor-deficiency put downs. </p>

<p>Ok, let’s all back off, join the fray against loser-boy, send some self-deprecating jokes about Ching-chongs to the Princetonian “No hard feelings, it was velly good joke! We good sport!” and go back to whining impotently about admission bias. See. we’re back being the model minority and they all like us again.</p>

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<p>My point is that this article is offensive to asians, it might be a little racist depending on how / what point of view you look at it. It’s definitely not about Jian Li alone. Also, it is not to say this is the view of Princeton, it’s only a group of writers & editors’ view not necessary everyone in the newspaper’s opinion.</p>

<p>and I’m correct :D</p>

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<p>Can you be specific about the metaphor “cockroaches”? Enlighten me, o, erudite one. Is this another “joke” in the Princetonian manner? A satire? A morally uplifting way of securing debate of an intellectual persuasion?</p>

<p>Would love to stay and dig into the garbage, but math beckons!! Ching-ciao!</p>

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<p>midatlmom,</p>

<p>I certainly was not implying that Princeton has racists on its admissions board, or that Jian Li was rejected primarily because of his race, but my concern was that the prioritizing of intangible qualities over raw numbers has been historically abused. I have no issues with adcoms valuing passionate leaders as well as academic stars, but I do have an issue where before even a proper review, an Asian is pigeon-holed as a “textureless math grind” until he or she can prove otherwise.</p>

<p>And an Indian does not face the same racial insults as a Chinese, so it matters jack that the editor is of “Asian” descent. There is little unity between the Chinese and Indian minorities.</p>

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Do both. It makes the laugh appear more enthusiastic.</p>

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When they look and see none there, the message is clear to them. When they look around and see the one guy in their neighborhood trying to get in, and they see that he fails despite that he has good scores and GPA simply because he is just one little guy among tens of thousands of others, the message becomes very clear.</p>

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Well, in context of my other posts on this issue, you ought to know that I am saying blacks can’t make it BECAUSE of racial preferences.</p>

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It is much more complex than this. Blacks were making progress, but they did this through withering racism. I mean racism far worst than what whites and even Asians have had to endure. It was so atrocious that eventually black factions developed. Between 1940 and 1954 black unemployment skyrocketed, especially since blacks were “last to be hired, first to be fired”. Black men responded to this in much the same fashion as whites had responded during the Great Depression. They just gave up. The famous poem “A Dream Deferred” came out of this treatment. Eventually, the Deferred Dreams of blacks exploded into the mess we are seeing today. It is much more complex than this. But I haven’t the time to really go into it. I can tell you this: all this mess about “Liberals this, and Liberals that” is just simplistic nonsense, in my humble opinion. Yeah. Events in the sixties, such as changing views on sex and family did have negative effects on the black family. But look around. They had negative effects on every sort of family. But the seeds of decay were being planted even as far back as 1865. Had America just gotten out of the way, and allowed blacks to do what they were doing under Booker T. Washington, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Because of the pressures America subjected blacks to, men like Dubois felt they HAD to step up and try another way. You got your NAACP out of it. You got your Martin Luther King out of it. You got your Jesse Jackson out of it. And, yes, your Al Sharpton came of it. It is just a mess mixed up with a lot of good things too.</p>

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Racial preferences caused it in the first place. What needs to happen is for someone to keep an eye on blacks who perform high despite historic preferences that have long worked against blacks. Keep an eye on them so they don’t get lost, and in this way it gives hope to the little black kid who questions the defeatism all around him. It is not the only solution – just a part of it.</p>

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You know what? That is fine. But I think there is a much better way than this. I think that if you get “all of them right” it still does not mean you know anything about history. Often, with this sort of thing students learn a lot of facts, often disjointed facts, so that they can get some doggone test score. History is a lot more than this – A LOT more. If I see two students, you with your high score, and another student whose score is not as high, but who has obviously looked inside histories so that he can see their implications to populations of the past and those of today, well, I will prefer the latter student as a scholar. The score does not mean as much to me here. In my opinion holding admissions officers to a demand that they take the highest score when they too may be able to see the superior scholarly qualities of the latter student is just barbaric in my view.</p>

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Question Ocean only allows you to learn how to push buttons. It is important, but nothing on which to base a true system of education, one that helps humans fully express what they are as thinking beings walking around on this rock! Question Ocean only helps students learn how to express what others are. It is to education what an average pianist is to Chopin. Important? Yes, and for many reasons. Does it create? Does it express human individualism? Nope.</p>

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C’mon son. Can’t you cut me a break here? There are two sides of this issue, and neither of them is malicious. So I can’t yet see my way to the sort of anger that apparently comes so easily to you so that I attack the other side. I do see the error of the other side, and I have even written them to let them know of the problem. But I can’t yet see all the oppression and violence upon you that you apparently feel. I am trying, but so far all I see is a bunch of whining about how “if it was blacks, we’d all be eaten like pork chops”. I think the comparison is just off-base in this particular instance, especially when this sort of thing takes place against blacks all the blinking time with no complaints.</p>

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I am only expressing my view of it, friend. I think it is not racist, but the result of an error due to a lack of sensitivity. I think East Asians were also responsible for the article. They weren’t being racist in the sense of claiming East Asians are inferior to other races. They were clearly poking fun at stereotypes through a caricature they created to speak fro Jian Li. I am not defending what they did. I am trying to see how they got to the place of publishing that article. I think I see it clearly. And I see no maliciousness, nothing designed to favor others above Asians, nothing that maliciously attacks Asians. I do see an unintentional attack, and I have pointed it out. But it is not like The Prince just up and started poking fun at buck teeth, and saying “ching, chong, chong”, out of the blue—just to perpetuate the stereotypes. They were making fun of a guy through a caricature-- not very well, but I do see what they were trying to do.</p>

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That is not true. I do care how they feel. I just don’t think all these comparisons to what blacks have had to endure are appropriate in this little case. I think, in fact, Asians have OTHER things that do better compare to what blacks have had to endure. You know, the Bugs Bunny cartoons where Bugs runs around calling guys “Japs” and “Slant-eyes”. That mess really gets my Irish going. But here at The Prince, I see an accident. I actually see what they were shooting for. And I see how they failed. The Bugs Bunny folks were really racist. They were going for your neck. It is different in my view.</p>

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<p>Re: Post 284</p>

<p>Drosselmeier,</p>

<p>“Moron” math here? What is “non-moron” math, then?</p>

<p>The symbols shouldn’t be meaningless to the kids. The teacher gave a lecture and answered questions. My guess is most of the students raised their hands when asked if they “got” the material. I further guess that most will not be able to successfully complete a difficult problem.</p>

<p>There’s a difference between “question ocean” and “rote learning.” The former means doing many, many problems and trying to understand how the solutions came about such that these same methods can be applied to variations of problems. The latter means memorizing solutions.</p>

<p>Obviously, memorizing solutions kills creativity. That’s not what is done in China or any other Asian country, by the way.</p>

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<p>Re: Post 291</p>

<p>There is a free-response section in an AP exam. I’m sure you knew that, but you chose to ignore it when you extolled the virtue of IB’s “open-ended” test format.</p>