<p>JHS, thank you for confirming what I had been thinking – that some of these kids’ defenders on here probably had some experience with the drug and are reacting to how different their lives would have been if someone had turned them in in college.</p>
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<p>The exact same thing can be said about alcohol.</p>
<p>kids go to a private university, full freight I presume, live in a frat, and spend their money and time on cocaine.</p>
<p>And their parents are probably complaining their taxes are too high.</p>
<p>Meh.</p>
<p>A number of posters have mentioned that Aubart was/is unpopular. Supposing that to be true, how is it relevant to what he did or should have done? Do we have one set of standards for popular people and another set of standards for people we don’t like?</p>
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<p>They are actually linked to a different article that is cited on that page under “Most viewed…” Click on “Fourth arrest after drug incident at SAE.”</p>
<p>Under certain circumstances, I would turn others in, while it would take more extreme circumstances to turn in my own children, family,friends. I think that is quite normal. Not that I would think that they deserve special treatment from the world, but that they do from me, and I would have a bit more control over working with them about drug use than someone unrelated, not in my circle of friends. I don’t see a thing wrong about that. I would also help out my family and friends in a lot of situations that I would not be involved with others. </p>
<p>But the key thing is that I don’t expect others to treat my kids, family, friends the way I would. Anyone who expects otherwise is naive. Of course family gets special treatment. That is the whole thing with family.</p>
<p>Hanna, no, I would not react differently. I would not have much of a reaction to beer or cocaine.</p>
<p>That people here did drugs in college was in question? My assumption is that most parents here experimented.</p>
<p>Fang, I don’t think anyone is saying we should feel differently because Aubart is unpopular. I think we’re saying that we’re not surprised he’s unpopular because someone who did what he did thinks differently from most of his peers and is almost certain to have a history of not getting along with them.</p>
<p>I posted this earlier and want to share it again:</p>
<p>I am not a lawyer.</p>
<p>My assumption will be that Brown lets it go with a slap on the wrist ( loss of housing maybe ) as they have not been convicted of any crime.The senior will graduate and be gone. The national fraternity will put the house on probation and that will be that.</p>
<p>I assume everyone is lawyered up. One might expect the only charge that will hold would be possession for personal use. Therefore they would be expected to complete an outpatient drug program of some sort and be on probation for so many months. If they don’t have anymore charges the record will be expunged and it will be like it never happened.</p>
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<p>I wouldn’t expect others to treat my family the way I would either. I just hope that if anyone in my family is caught doing drugs, it is by someone who thoughtfully considers all of the circumstances, ramifications and alternatives before turning him/her in.</p>
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<p>No, I’m with you 100%</p>
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<p>Exactly. These guys are not victims. They are felons. They knew what they were doing and now will be held to account.</p>
<p>Thanks, Bay, for pointing me to that affidavit.</p>
<p>A couple huge things stand out.</p>
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<li><p>The police had incredibly thin evidence on which to arrest anyone. Their main informant thought he saw cocaine from quite a distance away. He didn’t claim to see anyone use it. The girl who came back thought it was cocaine, too, although she had never used any. She thought maybe one person had snorted it while she was in the room, but couldn’t remember if it was the male person or the female person she didn’t know. That’s credible! Analysis of one of the composites – whatever the heck that is – showed that some amount of cocaine had been on it sometime.</p></li>
<li><p>Had Shea and the girl actually gotten lawyers before speaking with the police, it seems doubtful that anyone could have been arrested. They weren’t arrogant and privileged enough, I guess.</p></li>
<li><p>Aubart was carrying through on a threat he had made months and months before. This wasn’t some hot dispute. And not only did he inform on some of his housemates, he also waived the privacy rights of all of them. He was clearly proud of himself. I’m not surprised he is in ROTC – this is why second lieutenants got fragged with some frequency in the bad old days. I’ve never been in a fraternity, but I wouldn’t expect people to treat each other this way there.</p></li>
<li><p>Shea may be a nice guy, as the Dartmouth posters represent, but I think guys who talk about girls the way he did to the cops are not so nice. That’s really beside the point, but I felt more upset about that than about the drug use.</p></li>
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<p>Yes, Bay, I, too, hope that my knucklehead get caught by those with empathy and that they do not get into that much trouble. But, if they do get caught by someone who does not feel that way, I don’t blame that person. I would be grateful, relieved and feel it was a great piece of luck if they did catch a break, but I would not and do not expect one.</p>
<p>Exactly,Bay. Aubart has all his ducks in a row apparently with Duke Law school. It will be interesting to see how his peers perceive him in the future.</p>
<p>Also, for Hanna and coureur, what, exactly, is the “giant ethical gulf” between illegal alcohol use and illegal drug use? Pardon me, but I don’t see it at all. I can see distinctions – I’ve already said that I find the supply-chain objection to illegal drugs compelling, and some legislature made felony vs. misdemeanor judgments – but nothing remotely approaching a “giant ethical gulf”. They are two forms of prohibition that mesh very imperfectly with actual social behavior, and have essentially random and infrequent enforcement in this context. They both basically outlaw behavior that has been normal for university students in Western culture since the Middle Ages. I can respect positivist arguments about this, but not natural law arguments.</p>
<p>“Had Shea and the girl actually gotten lawyers before speaking with the police, it seems doubtful that anyone could have been arrested. They weren’t arrogant and privileged enough, I guess.”</p>
<p>or maybe, despite having the quals to enter and get through Dartmouth, they were just dumb?</p>
<p>Just a quick note: while cocaine is obviously not pure evil or universally harmful, it does have some extremely serious medical risks. You might be interested in some of Antonello Bonci’s research on cocaine’s impact on the brain. There are also cardiovascular risks. There’s a good article on that at <a href=“http://www.uthsc.edu/cardiology/articles/Cocaine_NEJM.pdf[/url]”>http://www.uthsc.edu/cardiology/articles/Cocaine_NEJM.pdf</a></p>
<p>“They both basically outlaw behavior that has been normal for university students in Western culture since the Middle Ages.”</p>
<p>By the same token laws against rape, against certain acts of violence against the townspeople, etc would fall into the same category, if I remember my Chaucer correctly :)</p>
<p>I can see the deep cultural place of alcohol in college life. I would point out thats not determinative of optimal public policy, in a world with automobiles, and where the state at least cannot extend privileges to people living on university campuses that it does not extend to all 19 yos.</p>
<p>I would also suggest that most other illegal drugs do not have that long place in Western university culture. Which in large part accounts for different views of them.</p>
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<p>not so sure about that:</p>
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<p>Kids don’t know about these things. They can be so bright but have no common sense. Unless they have had experience with the law or heard about such things, they are not likely to know what to do. Heck, I wouldn’t know what to do. I such a police whoosh that I would cooperate the best I could, and probably get thrown in jail for that respect I have for the law. You don’t necessarily have to be breaking the law to get booked.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t bet a penny that they may not have gotten arrested. Usually, the lawyer part comes as they are being booked. </p>
<p>As for illegal alcohol use, you are talking about something that is legal and sold in the mainstream. That it is not legal for you because you are a minor is the illegal part of this if kids drink. There is no good explanatio for having coocaine. It is not allowed at all.</p>
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Well, I don’t, because some of the kindest, sanest, most responsible and (yes) most productive people I have known are (or have been) repeat “offenders” and drug users. My life would be much the poorer without them in it.</p>
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I wouldn’t think of them as crimes, to start with. (The state is entitled to its opinion, and I’m entitled to mine.) But no, I wouldn’t react the same way. I think of cocaine as more dangerous in the short term, both medically and legally/socially (the second part is a policy issue, the first part is inherent), so I’d certainly be more concerned about the cocaine use than the alcohol use. But a “giant ethical and emotional gulf”? No. It’s something I’d much rather he stay away from, but I don’t think of those who use it as scary or evil.</p>