Not really as the saved $360,000 over four years could generate enough earnings to almost pay for the master’s degree program. Plus, the master’s degree program may be viewed as an option only if a second shot is needed. Also, the earnings boost generated by earning a master’s degree at Princeton, CMU, or Baruch can yield a very substantial boost in starting salary & subsequent income.
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This leads me to my next hoary chestnut: “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.”
I think the bigger issue is OP doesn’t really know what they want - and likely doesn’t know what an IB/Quant career looks like.
They started with PhD. They want to live in NYC. I don’t think there’s anything tangible here besides they want to live in NYC that they should be pigeonholed into a long term plan today.
But then they say this - so I think all this pinning them to a specific career at this moment, at 17 years old, isn’t realistic. They have so much to learn in college - and who knows the direction they will go. And there are many more paths in NYC, requiring quantitative skills, then IB (or consulting). At this point, I think they are moreso convenient thoughts to say than a reality or desire.
I agree that I don;t know for sure what I want to do(and I don’t think anyone really can before college) but I just don’t want to close doors on things I might want to do and give myself as much optionality as possible
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For one interested in physics, possible physics PhD, and economics, a career as a quant in an investment firm is not unreasonable and, in this case, may be likely.
Regardless, ideas & information can be used or ignored at the recipient’s discretion.
The point of my last post is that saving $360,000 does not mean giving up a career on Wall Street.
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In the end, I think no matter what you read here from posters - it comes down to this:
Are mom and dad prepared to pay $95,901 (this year) + travel and the costs will go up in the future vs. $0?
If you have two choices - and you’ve told them the one you want, you can’t really learn anything from this chat.
Dartmouth is approaching - probably will be $100K during your four years - and are they willing to pay or not?
That’s all this really comes down to in the end.
I know you may think it does - but going to Ole Miss, if that’s where you do end up, does not preclude you from living in NYC.
All the analysis is great but the guts of the argument are:
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You want to go to Dartmouth
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It’s really expensive and your parents are unsure that they want to pay
This is why it’s so important families have budgets up front - so they don’t get into these pickles. If the budget is unlimited, no issue. If they had a lower figure in mind, they never would have let you apply.
Best of luck - I have a feeling you’re going to be a rock star either way!!!
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One thing that my D26 and I have talked a lot about is “option value” and how much is that option worth. My sense is that the less certain you are about what you want after college, the more “option value” you may want from your college. Dartmouth provides quite a lot of option value and for an uncertain student, that can be quite valuable and can make paying $400k worth it.
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My gut feeling is that you have this. No one on this thread knows a single solitary thing about your parents. The important thing is the conversation and that you will still have a loving relationship with them no matter what.
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But this is a subjective statement. The parents may not have thought of “optionality” but they may also may be stuck on the $400K.
And I do think these Stamps kids get a lot - I suppose similar to the UNC MC - Dartmouth discussion taking place ….Dartmouth seems to be in a lot of comparisons. They won’t end up as a traditional Ole Miss graduate will - they will way outperform.
So I don’t think it’s Ole Miss free vs. Dartmouth but Ole Miss….you get a ton of enrichment and other freebies vs. Dartmouth - and the parents may see that as well.
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That’s a great articulation of something we have talked about with S26. He’s interested in so many things but doesn’t have a clear sense of his future career direction. He is curious about an academic career but also wants to keep his options open. To me, going to Wesleyan as he is doing represents the best environment for him to discover and explore his interests and have many options open to him, no matter what he decides. I’m grateful and proud that we can give that to him.
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I am out in Australia and can only speak in that context.
I have interviewed for countless programming jobs, and where you graduated made zero difference. What made a difference later in your career was whether you earned a Master’s. I will not go into the exact mechanics of why that is, it’s just the way it works - you are able to get promoted faster, not necessarily a better entry job. It’s even true if you got a doctorate (only ever got one of those), but for senior executive positions, after getting a significant amount of experience, the doctorate was like gold (there was a selection criteria - provable ability to do research - with a doctorate - home and hosed).
From my perspective take the free ride and use the money saved to get a Masters or even a Doctorate.
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they definitely understand the optionality aspect and we have really good interesting discussions, the frustrating part is they want to take as much time as possible to think before making definite decisions so I’ll have to go to Dartmouth’s admitted students day without knowing if they will be willing to pay which might be difficult but I know it will all be over in a month
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If they’re sending you, then great - so they are open or wouldn’t send you. Let’s see if you end up liking being there.
It may be hard for you to realize but you win either way.
Good luck
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OP: Your first year at Dartmouth College will cost about $100,000 when adding in travel. Each subsequent year may add 5% due to inflation.
Year 1: $100,000
Year 2: $105,000
Year 3: $110,250
Year 4: $115,763
Total COA for 4 years at Dartmouth College: $431,013.
$431,013 for Dartmouth College versus a net gain of roughly $50,000 as a Stamps Scholar at the University of Mississippi. The difference is over $480,000. The math shows Ole Miss to be the better choice.
Plus, the money spent for Dartmouth College could be saved and put to work as an investment if you select Ole Miss as a Stamps Scholar. Therefore, the real difference in COA is over $500,000.
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It’s highly likely this will be true from a financial POV. But it may not be of concern to the family.
So many like to show the Ivy advantage as if it’s assured. For most in regular corporate jobs, like being a finance analyst at Procter & Gamble, it’s likely not much if anything.
I’ve worked with Ivy, Emory, Vandy, UCB and LA, Stanford (who was an admin), USC, Ga Tech etc - and Ivy kids occupy the same jobs as the rest of us. The Ole Miss person I work with who is maybe 27 or 28 just got promoted and I believe is over a Ga Tech.
Yes, they (Ivy grads) are in the roles at a greater clip that I’m unfamiliar with, but that bet on $400k is a heck of a risk - I don’t know whether 100:1 or 50:1 but the odds can’t be great for a positive ROI.
And if OP goes to grad school - say an MBA - they will not be disadvantaged as a Stamps or even by Ole Miss if not a Stamps. I’m guessing with parents that both have higher level degrees and an initial desire for a PhD, this student will have more schooling ahead. Perhaps they will pay for a Masters if saving on undergrad.
Plus in every interview, they can show the tenacity and responsibility of fully self paying for their education vs having mom and dad pay.
If OP wants D and the parents agree, then great. But it’s likely not going to pan out ROI wise and hurt the parents net worth - if that’s a concern - OP brought up.
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I’m a little confused by this. If the student accepts the Stamps at Mississippi, they will have earned the Stamps honor for sure. BUT the student isn’t exactly working their way through college. The student isn’t working their way through/paying for college by working jobs and paying with their own earned money. The college/Stamps scholarship is funding their education.
I think this student has two fine choices. If the family can afford whichever college the student chooses, I think the student needs to look for their own gut feeling on where they would like to attend college. From what I’m reading here, it sounds like the student would prefer Dartmouth, knowing that the Stamps does offer some wonderful advantages.
Two great options. Please let us know which one you choose!
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It’s all how you spin it.
If you are working at a clothing store on King Street in Charleston to make it so you can afford to attend college, it’s great.
If you’ve earned a premier scholarship that has fully covered your college expenses or like in my kid’s case free tuition plus, it shows you are top shelf, that you accomplished so much to achieve it and it gives you a chance to pivot to all the extras - not just what you get but the process of even earning it - this all shows off skill sets and experience..
Perhaps you didn’t have this in your life. As I noted yesterday, having my MBA tuition paid for by working as a Bus Com TA was a big highlight in interviews.
It gives you ammunition to discuss things in an interview, to set you at a different and higher level.
You may not see it but others do and will.
While no one know the parents finances, from what OP has intimated that they can afford Dartmouth. But with many parents, myself included, it’s whether they want to afford.
OP will find out in less than a month as the parents have told her. At this point, she needs to go to D for admitted student day (which is a positive sign they’d send her) - the student has seemed to have decided. Now it’s just waiting for the parents to decide.
I’ll assume that the back and forth will stop or move to PM and we can get back to helping the OP with his decision.
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I have been reading this thread for a while and have been having trouble figuring out what my opinion is. I think that I have finally figured out what I might be wondering if I were in the same situation.
First of all, to me the difference in price is probably not worth it for someone who wants to work in physics. It is also probably not worth it for someone who wants to be a software engineer.
However, my understanding is that for a career in investment banking or in management consulting it does matter where you get your bachelor’s degree, and Dartmouth College is one of the very top choices.
Thus one of the questions that comes to mind is how likely is it that OP (the student originally starting this thread) is going to end up in investment banking or management consulting? Also, how able are the parents to pay the cost of attending Dartmouth, and are they willing to do so?
A very, very long time ago I got a degree that would actually have been interesting to people who do quantitative investment banking (a degree in mathematics from MIT). It never occurred to me to go into this field. One reason is that it is my impression that this is a stressful field to go into. This may be entirely the right choice for some people. It just wasn’t for me. One thing I wonder about therefore: Assuming that there are some adults on this web site who did work in investment banking, and possibly some others who work in management consulting, how do they feel about their industry and how would they describe it? Is it in fact actually stressful? Also, am I correct that having a degree from Dartmouth College would be a very good start in this direction, and a better start compared to Ole Miss?
A few other thoughts…
PhD’s in STEM fields are indeed usually fully funded, with a stipend which is enough to live on so long as you live frugally. Having a small amount of additional support from parents can help, but is not needed and “small” is key. Since OP and OP’s parents seem to be paying attention to long term investment issues, I might for example mention that a PhD stipend is not enough to allow the student to both pay their bills and also fund an IRA, but as little as $7,000 per year from the parents might allow a PhD student to fund their IRA, and forty years later when the student reaches retirement age having this grow tax free for 40 years might actually add up to enough to matter. However, in terms of the typical cost of getting a university degree this is a rather small amount.
Another issue with PhD’s, admission can be very competitive. When one daughter was applying to PhD programs it became pretty clear at one point that if she had not gotten into a PhD program she probably would have been accepted for a master’s degree instead, which would not have been funded. This of course would have given the student’s parents the choice of funding the master’s degree, or expecting the student to work for a year and then apply again to PhD programs.
My daughter’s PhD program is definitely not in physics. It is in a STEM field. The various students in the same program come from a huge range of different undergraduate colleges and universities. I did not happen to see anyone from Ole Miss, but it would not surprise me if someone from Ole Miss, or Dartmouth College, or just about anywhere else, were to join the program. I expect that if you were to look at PhD students in any good physics PhD program, you would similarly find that they come from all over the place.
I feel the same way.
Attending Dartmouth would be expensive. It would not shut off any options (unless by depleting the education funds). A student can attend Dartmouth, study math and computer science and some physics classes, and end up in a physics- or math-related field. You do not have to go into investment banking just because you attend a university that is a feeder for investment banking (and I would expect that Dartmouth graduates end up in a very wide range of careers, most of which do not require a degree from a big name college).
I used to travel a lot on business. There are some lifestyle tradeoffs here. It is not for everyone.
At one point I had a recurring dream that I woke up and could not remember where I was or why I was there. After having this dream a few times I figured that the thing to do was to get dressed, go down to the lobby of the hotel, find someone I know, and ask “where is the meeting?”. Another option is to look in your wallet and see what sort of money is there. I mentioned this dream to my boss and he replied: “Dream? This really happens to me”. In terms of lifestyle, be careful what you wish for.
There are a lot of things that a person can do that involve solving quantitative problems. As a math major in university, I knew quite a few other students who were math majors. They went into a very wide range of different careers. Some of these (maybe close to half?) did require a master’s degree, which of course added some more expense to the education budget. As a few examples, after getting a bachelor’s degree in math, with a few appropriate elective courses, a student might end up getting a master’s in acoustics, AI, machine learning, operations research, statistics, quantitative economics (econometrics), and I expect quite a few other different fields. Physics is another area that can have a lot of hard and interesting quantitative problems to solve.
And very few 17 year old teenagers both know what they want to do with their career and actually end up sticking with it. Quite a few know what they want to do, but then change their mind. This is of course perfectly reasonable.
One thing we don’t know is whether they are still paying off student loans (and while this may matter in terms of the decision of where to go, the many anonymous people reading this thread do not need to know this). We also do not know and probably should not know the state of their retirement savings and lots of other things that they might be balancing right now with the cost of an education.
I do not think that this is an easy decision at all.
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What other acceptances do you have? These are such wildly disparate schools, it’s difficult to imagine having both on the same application list.
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