No school is required to fully fund all teams that are allowed to give scholarships. A school could choose to fund only football and basketball as long as they had the same number of scholarships available for women (thank you Title IX). At the Ivy league schools, it would more likely be for hockey, lacrosse and women’s crew but the NCAA doesn’t require schools to fully fund sports teams. Look at Georgetown.
But I don’t see that happening, no matter how many unions are formed.
Oh, you left out #2 (both his uniform number and his place on the NIL contracts list, right behind Bronny), Shedeur Sanders and his Louis Vuittan contracts.
Some rather harsh comments here. I don’t know what the team’s record has to do with anything. Nor do they seem to be angling for scholarships. They don’t seem spoiled to me, but I don’t know them.
They have indicated health insurance for athletic injuries is a top priority. Seems reasonable.
As to whether they should be paid, I’m not sure why an hourly wage for athletes is so objectionable to some. Seems reasonable to me given the role athletics play at these and other schools.
If folks want to side with Dartmouth that these students can’t be employees because athletics are part of their educational experience, okay. NLRB disagrees.
It’s mandatory all students have health insurance…either via their parents’ policy or the school’s student policy. Do they want a better plan? No deductibles or co-pays? What am I missing?
ETA: Maybe they are wanting disability insurance?
Considering everyone on this forum is always harping about how these teams make no money, I don’t see how their roll is more special than the incredible acapela groups or orquestras, or even club teams, these schools have.
— Branch Rickey
sure, they have the cash, but unlike the power 4 conferences, which rake in millions from TV (primarily football), the Ivy payout from espn is relative peanuts. If Dartmouth’s players start bargaining for $80k full rides, there is no TV contract to cover that expense (unlike D1 football schools). 15 full rides is an additional $1.2m hit to the bottom line. Add in all the other sports who would get in line, and soon we’re talking real money.
The issue the current Dartmouth 15 have to answer, is “what value do they as athletes bring to the College?” Hard to see how they bring an extra $1.2m in value.
Even a partial scholly is tax free. Better value than an hourly wage.
Is that what’s on the table? I thought it’s ~$20/hour wages plus some benefits? (although some of the athletes may be on full rides from need based aid…would that go away?)
I agree the team doesn’t bring in any value, yet still can’t imagine D cutting sports. But who knows?
Not sure what this means, but scholarships that cover room and board are taxable for students.
I don’t know their specific situations but I took it as a reference to a couple issues I’ve heard from athletes: often, parent insurance is not adequate for athletes and they are directed to use the school’s plan because the athletic medicine folks are familiar with the preauth issues and can expedite. In addition, health insurance simply does not cover some of the treatments needed by athletes to expedite recovery from injury (this is often picked up by the individual programs, often funded by friends of…). These aren’t issues faced by other students.
Again, I don’t know if those are the sorts of issues they’re referencing but I wouldn’t just dismiss it as an issue (I’m not saying you’re doing that at all btw).
I take this to mean experimental/unproven and/or naturopathic type treatments. I understand why that’s not covered.
But they are. Vocalists get nodules. Violinists in the orchestras get carpal tunnel. And on and on.
But I’m not dismissing it…just wondering what I am missing/what they are wanting.
But to whom do the a capella groups report and who sets their working conditions?
Dartmouth claims athletics is part of the educational experience and so these can’t be employees. The same argument could be made about TAs and RAs (and in fact is by some schools) yet they’re compensated. I’m not sure why athletes getting similar treatment is an issue?
In the cases I’m familiar with, there weren’t expenses I’d call experimental but just things like more aggressive rehab treatments, PT, Chiro, muscle work and the like that are standard practice at large D1 programs (fully covered by the program) and among pro athletes but wouldn’t typically get approved by insurance. Athletic medicine just has to move with more urgency than insurance guidelines written for a general population, for whom taking it easy for a few weeks works. In a few cases I know of athletes who funded this out of pocket but I think some of the programs/schools use friend groups to fund.
And I’m not suggesting that non athletes don’t develop health issues that affect their performance. It’s just that presumably a singer can rely on his parent health insurance and is not told by athletic medicine that he should also sign up for the school’s plan because if he is injured and needs a preauth for an MRI it’ll be faster that way.
Health insurance isn’t a Qualified Educational Expenses, so if the players have their insurance paid, it is taxable. If they are employees, should they share in the expense as most of us do for employee subsidized plans?
I really doubt they are having to pay for their own trainers and ice baths and even crutches if they need them.
Baylor is taking a different path. It has an alum group that is raising money and paying all athletes under an NIL deal. I believe Penn State also has such a fund that is run by Joe Paterno’s son. That is income, and they are taxed on it just like Bronny James for his commercials. Dartmouth basketball could do that.
The NCAA doesn’t allow players to be paid. I’m assuming Dartmouth still wants to be part of the NCAA.
sorry, I should have been more clear: tuition scholarships are tax-free. Instead of say, $20/hr x 20 hours/wk x 15 weeks, which is taxable, that same amount of cash could be put towards tuition in the form of a grant or scholarship, which is not taxable.
If they are employees, a Cadillac health plan could be tax-free.
right, and those “large D1 programs” are covered by multi-million dollar TV deals. They bring money into their University.
Dartmouth b’ball may not even cover its bus expenses.
The College needs TA’s and RA’s to function as an academic institution. It does not need basketball players. Nor acapella, nor debate…which are nice-to-haves. They certainly don’t need 34 varsity sports.
If the athletes wanna get paid, they need to offer ‘value’ to the College that exceeds their wages. And that is what is so surprising: Dartmouth has a really strong Econ program, and Intro Econ would have made that rather clear.
The Ivy League has a contract with ESPN and every Ivy hoops program brings in money from the shared March madness payout.
I’ve been to a few Heps championships and tournaments recently and it’s pretty hard after that to understand the argument that athletics aren’t important to these schools. No matter what the financial costs.
As for some of the comments here about the team’s record, are folks suggesting Princeton hoops teams are more deserving of collective bargaining because they win more games?
This isn’t an issue about wins, losses, revenues, etc. It’s about amateurism and the current model of college athletics. Just a few years ago people were ridiculing NIL, players were penalized for wanting to transfer, etc. All that uproar seems ridiculous now. I’m not sure arguments over the employee status of athletes won’t look the same in a few years.
Are other minimum wage Dartmouth employees getting Cadillac health care plans? And what are they going to do about the NCAA rule of not playing to play?
I think that even if they are successful in negotiating for all of this, they could lose. The school could start charging them for uniforms, laundry, travel, etc. Teacher’s unions don’t pick up those costs for members. When my daughter traveled with her team the expenses were paid, like food, transportation, hotel (if necessary). When her team made the playoff, the NCAA paid for their costs to stay on campus after school got out for the semester - food, dorm (if needed, but most of them lived off campus), any other expenses, and then the cost of traveling to the playoff site. Yes, I realize Dartmouth men’s basketball isn’t going to the NIT or March Madness, but if they did…I say charge them like you would any employee for extra things that other employees aren’t getting.
To comply with Title IX, women’s teams would have to receive the same deal.
Not to mention all the special perks… like fully funded training trips, sometimes international, which include plenty of downtime fun activities; special alumni networking events for athletes; relationships with faculty who serve as team fellows; to name a few…
Or how about the ultimate perk - getting a significant admissions boost despite, in some cases, having lesser academic credentials than a typical Dartmouth admit.