<p>I discussed this with my son tonight. He seems to think well of Lohse as a writer, and often agrees with his editorials, although he cannot judge his motivation re SAE. He says that it is his impression is that about half the frats have the kind of initiation rite described by Lohse. His house does not. S has told me before that he would have considered pledging only a few other frats than his own: he was strongly opposed to the entire concept before going to D.</p>
<p>I asked him if he would have eaten someoneās vomit. He said that, if he were an SAE pledge, he assumes that peer pressure would have made him do it. But he would not have felt good about himself afterwards. (S is highly resistant to peer pressure.) Thereās probably a reason he did not go to pledge events at SAE. :)</p>
<p>If half the frats at Dartmouth have these sorts of initiation rituals, and combine that with a culture that often promotes alcohol consumption/abuse, and you can can see why some people wish the Greek houses werenāt such such a dominant and controlling force in much of the schoolās social scene and available housing.</p>
<p>My impression is that Dr. Kim would like to reform and de-emphasize the Greeks to make Dartmouth a better place. But the school isnāt rich enough to build and support a comprehensive residential college system, and the frats and especially the frat alumni are influential enough to thwart all but the mildest of reforms.</p>
<p>As long as I can remember, administrations have wished for more control over fraternities and other social organizations beyond their reach, including at Dartmouth. The drinking culture at Dartmouth is a very serious problem.
The other side of the coin is that schools with such student-run social organizations (including eating clubs at Princeton) often have the most enthusiastic and loyal graduates. And as uncomfortable as it makes me feel, I think the selective nature of the organizations are a key to their strengths. Someone decides to apply, and others decide to accept or not. And I think people conflate the quality of their social experiences at the school with their feelings about the school itself.
Residential college systems such as at Yale, where the administration sorts you into one, generate weaker ties. At Oxford most students apply to a residential college and are accepted or rejected. The meaning of ones college at Oxford is just far deeper there than at Yale or Harvard.
Princeton is trying to build up the residential colleges, but it is a weak substitute for the appeal of the eating clubs. Dartmouth has set up a dorm (Wheelock?) to mimic the residential colleges it sees at Harvard and Yale, but it has limited appeal for most students.
Of course this is all just one personās very subjective view. And I know that some Oxford students choose to have the University assign them to a (less selective) college, half the eating clubs at Princeton are non-selective, and at Dartmouth many Greek organizations arenāt particularly selective at all.
Iāve gone off-subject and didnāt read the hazing article. I know Iāve seen recent Dartmouth grads with serious drinking problems already. The costs are very large. But there are costs to administration control of studentsā social choices as well, in terms of happy students and identification with the school.
IMO Princeton and Dartmouth alumni giving rates are higher than those of Yale and Harvard in part from studentsā social experiences, not just because Harvard and Yale donāt focus on their undergraduates enough.</p>
<p>If a kid is going to drink while away at college, he or she will find a way to do it whether its Dartmouth or a state school. The intensity of the academic work at Dartmouth is incredible. Itās on the quarter system, your peers are all high achievers, so while there may be opportunity to imbibe at the Greek Houses, they do manage to sober up to get the work done. S has told me that there are a lot of students that do other things besides drink all week. There are a lot of athletic and social events, and his friends are all focusing on getting into graduate school and landing good jobs. I am not worried.</p>
<p>Some of the Frats do practice hazing like that mentioned in the article. Most people know which ones. It is voluntary to join, after all. However, when ds was pledging I was pretty repulsed by what he told me and believe there should be more oversight. </p>
<p>Magnum PI, your son seems to have a good balance. Not sure mine did. Here is the cycle as explained to me:</p>
<p>Freshman year- they recruit you and are nice
Pledge term- you are abused
Sophomore Summer- you get to live in the house and have your first taste of controlling the social space
Junior year- internships, study abroad coming and going
Senior year- your turn to be king.</p>
<p>Graduate- you realize it was probably too much but would never have given it up as a Junior or senior</p>
<p>Reddor, that seems to be correct, akin to being on any sports team. I think the stats are 60 to 62% go Greek. It is therefore a big part of the scene. However, if a good 40% are doing other things, that means you have options. The Greek system may help in networking after graduation, or it could effect your GPA if you party too much. It all comes down to choices. You just have to hope your student makes the best choice and support them when they do it. </p>
<p>Now bring on the snow sculpture on the webcam!</p>
<p>Our D just received her ālikely letter,ā in the mail and from what weāve been reading, this practice seems to indicate good news on her chances of being accepted. Have any of you fellow parents had a student that received one? What was your reaction to it and should we really start celebrating?!</p>
<p>Also, would it be taboo to have our D sent out some form of āthank you,ā either via email or snail mail?</p>
<p>Congrats DowneasterDad! A likely letter definitely means she has been admitted to the college (something huge would have to happen for this to be withdrawn). Dartmouth is a very special place, and we all feel very fortunate to have our kids attending this wonderful college. If you can manage it, have your daughter attend Dimensions. Itās a great weekend for accepted students that really shows the place off. I have no idea about etiquette regarding a thank you letter, but if she has established a relationship with an AO, why not say thanks and express her excitement. This is just one parentās view, but I would think they would love to see it.</p>
<p>Oh, and my D was not one of the lucky ones to receive a likely letter. In fact, she had applied ED and was deferred, so she was on pins and needles on admisson day, as it was still her first choice. You should be very proud!</p>
<p>Thanks, weāre all quite excited. Dartmouth was the very first campus we visited over a year and a half ago and while we have been impressed, dazzled and overwhelmed with the myriad of other campus visits since then, my W, D and I have never forgotten the impact our visit to Hanover had on us. Itās strange how life just seems to come full circle.</p>
<p>Itās great that your D was eventually admitted, good for her. My D is struggling with a little guilt at being the only one in her school to so far receive one amidst a number of her classmates who also applied.</p>
<p>Maybe itās just superstition on my part, but Iād wait until I had something even stronger than a likely letter before worrying about thanking them. Iād wait for the official admission letter.</p>
<p>Congrats, we were stunned by the likely letter because it came in a little envelope and we were on the lookout for the big envelopes. We had to read it a couple of times to let it sink in. It sure bumped Dartmouth up to the top of the list. I recall that the letter also mentioned to be discreet so others that havenāt heard are not so disappointed. Hope to see you around DowneasterDad!</p>
<p>Thatās a valid point. I just thought that in this time of stress for the admissions office that hearing about our Dās current excitement is something they would enjoy.</p>
<p>@Magnum PI</p>
<p>Thanks. Interesting . . . our Dās letter does not mention keeping the news discreet. She is pretty level-headed and not one to flaunt this type of news but she has told her friends and in-so-doing, Iām sure the whole school knows by now. <shrugs></shrugs></p>
<p>My D applied RD because she had a 1a, 1b, 1c of interchangable top choices of which Dartmouth was a part and didnāt want to lock herself into an ED.</p>