Davidson or Williams for T&F athletic recruit

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@GimmeSomeCoffee
My daughter is a freshman at Williams, where she runs XC and track and Davidson was also on her list. She’s loving it! The team is super cohesive (and not just the distance runners who are obviously together for the fall xc season). She’s found the team social scene really her speed - not a big drinker. Feel free to PM with any questions!

I’ll add the following: the men’s and women’s teams are together most of the time - practices, meets, meals, etc. The team throws a few parties and explicitly states that they want non-drinkers, those who are just dipping a toe into drinking, and those who drink all to be respected and welcomed for whatever their choice is. They want the team to be the runners’ family and for everyone to feel comfortable being wherever they are on the partying spectrum without any pressure to change who they are.

As parents, we’ve been really happy with the team, the coaches, the guidance of the upperclassmen, etc. It’s (so far, fingers crossed) exactly what a parent would hope a team at a small, isolated new england college would be. Our kid had a home and friends from Day 1. She’s also making all sorts of friends now not from the team (from the dorm, a lab partner, a club member) but there was much comfort for her and us how warmly the runners are brought into the fold at Williams.

None of this is to say that wouldn’t happen at Davidson, so it’s not a knock on that school or program. It’s simply to say how well Williams and the team did on the things that kids and parents want to see (they aren’t all the same) as college begins.

I’ll add another thought now that I’ve caught up on the thread: I agree with @politeperson that east coast, especially NE, especially running the D3 vs D1 breakdown isn’t really telling. The strongest D3 programs easily would beat many many D1 teams, and you’ll see many runners who are facing the choice of top academic and athletic D3 vs non-major D1 program (a Davidson or W&M or Leligh or Rice) choose the D3 for whatever reason b/c the there isn’t a meaningful distinction on running alone. Some D3 runners choose that over an Ivy. So, to the extent that west coast running culture wouldn’t have brought that to light, it’s something to consider.

Also, obviously NYC and Boston are huge placement areas for Williams, but plenty of grads return to the west coast from Williams and are easily able to be recruited to/find jobs in that geographic area. Several of my friends from back in the day were Williams grads who returned home to CA and we know of many more currently. To the extent that is a concern, I would suggest it maybe doesn’t need to be.

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Thank you so much for replying! I’m going to PM you.

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I would expect the community at Williams to be a significantly more supportive environment for LGBTQ+ students than Davidson. Take a close look at Davidson’s eating clubs and fraternities. I noticed the use of “they” for your student.

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Just an fyi, the use of “they” in a forum designed to be confidential in nature is not necessarily indicative of a LGBTQ person. I use non-gender specific pronouns to protect the anonymity of my children, none of whom identify as they/them.

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Bingo!

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You have every right to protect your kiddo’s privacy, but noted that you have already shared your kiddo’s gender in other threads. :woman_shrugging:

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This post includes brief comments on Williams in the context of comments on other liberal arts colleges: NESCAC Spoken Here: - #5 by merc81.

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I agree with @politeperson on this. My son ran track and he looked at Davidson in part because it is D1. In the end, he didn’t like the school as much as he expected when he visited and he later realized that D3 can be just as competitive and just as much fun. (Davidson is a lovely school, but the feel was just off for him.) In any event, it seems that the Davidson men’s track team was ranked 230/324 in D1 for the 2024 outdoor season, whereas Williams was ranked in the top 16 for D3. My son ran in a different conference but the NESCAC conference is extremely strong, and I have to believe it would be a lot of fun and sufficiently challenging to run with that crowd.

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We looked at Davidson for my S. He ultimately didn’t have the grades to get in. As a male sprinter — this is a very weak D1 program so it may not have been a match for him anyway. Personally I would prefer a stronger D3 team for him over Davidson. There have been coaching changes, not sure they have a dedicated sprints coach which was another big minus. Don’t know your child’s gender or events so just thought I’d share what we found.

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Is your son is feeling that Davidson is not a fit, and if he has a great option, I’d definitely dig into the latter a bit more.

Williams is consistently good at sports, so there would also be lots of other student athletes (in addition to his team), so I doubt he’d feel anything lacking at this top D3 school.

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You can’t go wrong with either choice. I’m a Williams grad who loved everything about my 4 years there (with the possible exception of some winter days when I truly felt the remoteness of the campus) and I have a student at Davidson who has loved his experience there. The schools certainly have different vibes (and climates) but both offer outstanding student focused campus life. Due to it being D1, your child can likely expect a greater time commitment to his/her sport at Davidson compared to Williams.

It might be worthwhile watching these amateur videos made last year by students on Davidson’s Cross Country and Track & Field teams. They are certainly not slickly produced, but because the students made the videos themselves they may give better insight into the student athlete experience at Davidson.

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As a D1 school, I’d also be having conversations with the coach about the size of the team and the direction the athletic department might be going, and commitment to a men’s TF team. These are important considerations ahead of the NCAA changes.

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Agree — I think the Davidson program is concerning.

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Still Davidson does have some outstanding athletes on their track and field team. Second team All-American and rising senior Jayden Smith made it to the 110m hurdle semi-finals at the US Olympic Trials this summer.

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These are both great schools (I am a Williams alum and spouse and kid are Davidson alums so am very familiar with both generally, though not their T&F programs). I think the most key differences for your kid will be the T&F programs, so talking to athletes and coaches at both schools would probably be the best course of action. (Unless there is some program at one or the other that really calls to the kid, both will provide a top-notch education.) Davidson will have more alums in Atlanta, Charlotte, DC, while WIlliams will have more in Boston, NY, DC, and both will have some presence in other large cities (Chicago, LA, SF, Seattle, etc.). These are two great options - just a matter of where the kid will feel most comfortable. I will say the track at Davidson is in a prime spot, by the Union. (WIlliams has a nice outdoor track around the football field too with the mountain views, just a little farther down Spring Street from the main part of campus).

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Both schools are very small so I would go with your son’s gut as to fit. Davidson has a fairly active Greek scene (30 percent of students) but parties are open to all.

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I think the talk of ‘party every night, and twice on Fridays’ may be the host telling a 17 year old what the host thinks the recruit wants to hear.

Think about it - most meets are on Saturdays, and most athletes are in bed at 9 pm on a Friday night before a game/meet or they’ve traveled and may be away from campus on Friday night. My daughter’s coach had a very strict rule about no drinking 24 hours before a practice and 48 hours before a game, and they had practice almost every day and 18 games in about 10 weeks in the spring (fall ball was about 6 weekends for round robin play, but still no drinking on Fridays before the weekend play). I’m not saying they didn’t drink, but they didn’t do it in a big public way. One girl was caught and missed her very first game of her freshman year. Big mistake, and the coach suspended her. And she was a star player.

Daughter was at an engineering/tech school, and about 75% of the team were STEM students with very high GPAs. They were studying when they were supposed to be studying. The school where the host took her to party (when she was 16) to show it was a big party school? Smith! Hardly known as a big party school.

Pick the school where the student feels most comfortable, academically and athletically. The rest will work out… The student will change a little in college too, and may become the big partier or more studious or more involved in school activities or become a total hermit. College is about change.

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My athletes have a similar experience as yours due to morning practice almost every day and games, but we know someone who was very frustrated with their Patriot League team because they felt the team was much more interested in partying than working hard in the sport.

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