<p>Another question relevant to this thread-- if your child is on a 504 plan (I’m guessing OP’s daughter will be once they do the testing), it’s supposed to go with you to college, but I’ve never been quite sure what that means. Have any of you used it to help bend the math req’s, for instance allow a stats course instead of calc? Thank you!</p>
<p>(And great advice about writing it out well and showing your stuff that way, Mythmom–I intend to have D follow that path!)</p>
<p>I don’t mean to hijack the conversation here, but St. Olaf is unique among schools I know about in terms of religion. They are affiliated with the Lutheran Church and offer optional chapel every day. Chapel during the week is not a service, however. It is someone reflecting on something in their life–time, weather, mentors, etc., or a musical performer, poet, artist. According to my DD, the kids are mostly not obviously religious; rather they are more spiritual. A wide variety of faiths are practiced there, and the majority of conversations are based on asking the big questions, like who am I?, What is the purpose of life?, How does having a set of beliefs affect one’s values? and questions like these. My DD is taking the 5 Great Conversation courses that will cover her basic core requirements, including religion. This is not a theology class per se, but a history/philosophy/art and culture/religion/communications class sequence that starts with Greeks and Hebrews and moves through history to contemporary times, asking how the “big” questions have been addressed throughout recorded history in the context of each era, compared to today. Very intellectual discussion-based courses that work their way through the Great Books. I’m sure the New Testament is covered, but not excessively. What I’m trying to say is that the school may appear very religious because it receives funding from the Lutheran Church, but the atmosphere is open and spiritual. My thinking is that if you don’t ask the big questions in college, when do you hope to ever find answers? I like St. Olaf’s emphasis on helping students discover their purpose by helping them identify their strengths and talents and then finding opportunities to use them. Most schools are aspiritual and I think that is a shame.<br>
As far as outdoorsy-ness, St. Olaf is very cool. Last weekend at Family weekend I saw groups of students doing the cross-country skiing on roller blades to train for ski season. You can’t count the number of bikes outside of every dorm, and their sports facilities and open lands are spectacular. Besides being on the swim team, my daughter sings with a choir and plays Quidditch. Lots of intramurals if you don’t play a varsity sport and lots of places on campus to break a sweat. The music scene is amazing–OK GO performed there last night and there are a ton of student-formed bands to hear. The sense of humor is great among students and adminstrators–we laugh the whole time we are there. Not too many other schools think and plan as well as St. Olaf does. They truly have a growth plan for their students.</p>
<p>Olymom–My DD is as much entitled to her opinion of Greek life as you are to your Panglossian view. Of course she’s seen Legally Blonde and loves the movie. She has also seen some “real life” incidents in the Greek world that horrified her. That being said, she would never criticize other girls for wanting that choice. I have told her that in very large state unis the Greek system can be a good way of finding community and she has a dear friend 1 yr ahead that just joined at her big U. Ah well, something tells me that we should just agree that wanting a small school that is not “run by, dominated by” etc etc the Greeks is still one valid criteria for choosing a college and not call each other “Mean, judgmental and rude.”</p>
<p>To the Poster that recommended Chapman–we did visit and sadly it goes down as one of our worst visits. The “info” session was one of the worst we ever attended, the tour did not include the film/communications school even though a large handful of us from out of state were there just to see it, the tour guide was abysmal etc etc. I still think it’s a good choice for others as I can see past that better than my daughter.</p>
<p>Mythmom–I really appreciate such practical advice from someone “in the trenches” Thanks</p>
<p>Gwen Fairfax–That is a really good question about the 504Plan. Can anyone with more experience give us some help?</p>
<p>Oh I meant to add that I did not mean to be critical of St Olaf. I actually think it is a wonderful school and their vocal music is world-class. I hear it is a very warm environment too. Even though DD may not choose it (she actually has not taken it off the list) I would encourage others to read up on it as I think it is a gem in many ways. You have to understand that the “religious” objection (if you can even call it that) is DH and I wondering if there is any Jewish life there.</p>
<p>5boys, have you ever taken a look at Warren Wilson College in Asheville, NC? It is a “work college” where the students do outdoor work along with their classes, in a very artsy town. It attracts a lot of outdoorsy, conservation oriented students.
OP, I know nothing about this really but I heard that Antioch is reopening with a class of 25 students, all of whom must be recommended by an alumnus or someone connected. There will be personal attention, I am sure, and the school has a reputation for being VERY artsy.
Good luck!</p>
<p>How about Occidental? We never visited, but it sounds good on paper. </p>
<p>I understand about Cornell. My son goes to Grinnell, and I’ve learned to start by saying he goes to school in Iowa, otherwise people always say, “Cornell! Great school!”</p>
<p>SDonCC</p>
<p>I guess it’s a small world because DD2 also goes to Grinnell and she is the one who told DD3 not to go to Cornell (College) because then they both will have to explain,…“no, not Cornell.”</p>
<p>levirm… Yes, Warren Wilson is on my S’s early list. We plan to visit this January when we take a trip to TN to visit Sewanee. At first look it seems perfect for my S, but he seems to think it may be too small. </p>
<p>catpb… I have some more questions for you, so I’ll pm you so as not to hijack this post.</p>
<p>poppymom, I can’t really suggest specific schools as we looked only in the northeast, but ShawSon is distinctly unbalanced though in a different way. Although he willed himself to score extremely well on the SATs and ACTs (moving up from 48th percentile in middle schools exams to 99+ percentile on SAT and ACT), he is severely dyslexic, which at this point means that although he reads and writes well, both activities are quite fatiguing for him. We decided that he should attend a school that had either no distribution requirements or minimal distribution requirements so that he could avoid the typical humanities or political science classes with 400 pages of required reading a week. He’s been on an IEP since grade 2 and has been neuro-tested out the wazoo, so we had data to present to the top few schools that accepted him and we visited and asked the deans of disability services how they would handle 100% extra time, note-taking, etc. There were significant differences in how they were handling things and he turned down an Ivy to go to an LAC. They are treating him very well. But, one of the key things is that he can control, to a large extent, how much reading/writing he’ll need to do in a semester by taking math or art classes. Full curricular flexibility might turn out to be important for your daughter as well.</p>
<p>Hmm, I haven’t read the whole thread but I thought I would throw in my experience. I was accepted to a well respected school with my Math not even in the 25th percentile (100 points lower) and my CR above the 75th percintile. However as far as I know I do not have any learning disabilities other than I have trouble testing well in math.</p>
<p>I like to believe that my school saw that I had a weakness but that I also had strengths. I wrote a good essay and I had a decent gpa (lowest grades were in Math (straight B’s, highest math class I ever took was pre-cal). I think it is all about showing that you daughter is a hard worker and can be a competent student besides her lacking the ability to perform higher levels of math.</p>
<p>corey91,</p>
<p>I like your post! Do you feel that your problem lies solely with standardized math tests, or were your math classes always a struggle, too? Did you write your essay or answer any short answer questions on your disparate scores, or did you let your record speak for itself? I always wonder whether it is better to acknowledge awareness of one’s weaknesses or to just accentuate the positive?</p>
<p>I haven’t read the whole thread – but to the OP:</p>
<p>My daughter’s math score wasn’t quite as bad as yours, but it was pretty weak – and your d. has done better on the reading score than mine did. My d had slightly better GPA, but not by much – and it may be because whereas your d. was taking regular math… mine wasn’t even taking math at all after her sophomore year. (Long story as to why – but the point is I had a kid with pretty weak math scores applying to colleges with no math beyond algebra II). </p>
<p>I’m posting because my d. was dead set on attending an urban college, and focused on reaches – and was surprisingly successful in that endeavor. She was accepted at a bunch of reach colleges where her scores put her in the bottom quartile – and ended up doing very well at the college she accepted. (Her college required her to take one year of a lab science and a single semester of math, but there was a lot of flexibility – she found a statistics-for-dummies type course to satisfy the requirement and managed to muddle through. Other than that it was smooth sailing, classes in English, history & other areas of high interest and strength; she ended up a poli sci major). </p>
<p>I think colleges understand lopsided candidates. They aren’t expecting to produce well-rounded, good-in-everything graduates – they know that their students will channel themselves into appropriate majors – and no one expects your d. to ever occupy a seat in an upper level math course at their college.</p>
<p>It’s a plus that your d. has not fallen in love with any particular college – better than if she had her heart set on an impossible reach. But do encourage her to reach! Of course she needs to have some safeties in the mix, but when she is reaching she should focus on her strengths. Does she want to continue speech and drama at college? Then be sure to find a place that will appreciate her talents! (Not necessarily the place with the <em>best</em> debate team or strongest theater department – she might be more attractive to the place with the emerging or growing rhetoric or drama department. )</p>
<p>But the point is, your d. has a great personality, wonderful talents and abilities – the college application process is a place to emphasize those. It would be a mistake for her to give up on herself because of a discrete area of weakness. </p>
<p>Please encourage your daughter by focusing on her strengths. Most college courses require a high volume of reading and have high expectations for writing – so the ad coms are going to look at those 31’s on the ACT and be very happy with them – especially at the schools you have identified as matches. </p>
<p>I do think you and your daughter should take some time to look at the core or breadth requirements of various colleges before applying. Does the college require students to take some math to graduate? If so, what kind of math and how much? Can the math requirement be fulfilled with a “quantitative reasoning” course such as logic, rather than something numbers oriented? Does the college allow students to opt for pass/fail grading in courses taken to fill general ed requirements?</p>
<p>For Gwen Fairfax: Eastern schools I would suggest include Hampshire, Emerson, Simmons, Wheaton in MA, Ithaca College, Sarah Lawrence.</p>
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<p>Hmm, I did struggle in my math classes as well, I got my B’s because I turned in every piece of HW and did whatever extra credit I could get out of my teachers. I never did well on my tests, I don’t think I got a test grade above B in math. I can do the math when I have an example in front of me but when just given a problem and told to solve it I just blank and I can’t connect the dots. I also have significant trouble with the timing, I probably would have scored significantly higher if I had more time for my math. I know I’m not good at math so I get easily flustered when I feel pressured with time it just makes it worse. It is really curious to me since I seem to be the reverse of most students, I always finished before the time on my CR yet never got fully through the math.</p>
<p>I did not directly address my poor math score, I felt that since I had taken the test four times in a clear effort to raise that score spoke for itself. I emphasized in my essays that I am a hard worker and that even when things get difficult, here are several quotes from my essays that I sent to the school:</p>
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</p>
<p>I wanted to show the admissions people that I am confident in my ability to succeed in their school and hopefully make them confident in their choice to choose me, I guess it worked. : )</p>
<p>I personally feel honored that my school choose me because no doubt there were other students wanting my spot who probably had better stats than me, but in a way because of my poor scores I think I portrayed how much I really wanted to go to the school. I would absolutely love to talk to whoever made the decision to let me in I’d succeed to know their point of view, or even just to thank them for allowing me the opportunity to show that I am not just my SAT scores.</p>
<p>A friend of mine has a D whose scores were lopsided like your daughter’s. She had a lower GPA (barely above 3.0, mostly due to low math and science grades) and a lower ACT composite score - low 20’s - with 16 in math, a fairly low science score that I don’t recall, 30 in Reading, 29 in English and a near perfect score on the writing part. She was told by several colleges that they put a lot of weight on the Reading score in such a situation, because there’s a lot of reading and writing in college and a high score on the Reading portion indicates that the student can likely do the work. This girl wasn’t going into a math related field, so I think a lot of schools could see their way clear to overlook the low math score. She was applying to mostly small LACs, and got into almost all of the schools she applied to, even though her composite ACT was below the middle 50% for most of them. Several of the schools where she was accepted commented on the strength of her essay. She ended up at a CTCL school, with merit money. She’s a sophomore now and has earned mostly A’s, although she hasn’t taken the two required math courses yet and is not looking forward to that.</p>
<p>Could a Sophie Tucker/BetteMidler combo fit in the South? OK, I realize this is probably so outdated and I apologize to all the nice people in Arkansas. </p>
<hr>
<p>Hendrix isn’t really a “southern” school. D was really interested in Hendrix & visited (we are from the midwest). She didn’t feel like she was in the south when she was on campus … there are kids from all over, and it’s far from the stereotypical southern school. I will say, though, that D was glad she visited. She liked the school, but she was able to see that it wasn’t for her. Same with Centre, another school she liked but ultimately decided against. The two schools are terrific, but they are small enough that fit becomes pretty important.</p>
<p>I imagine that there are plenty of schools where a student who will be getting a BA will only have to take a basic math class. She needs to find a school that will embrace her obvious talents. I bet she’ll find several great options!</p>
<p>thank you Mythmom!</p>
<p>OP,</p>
<p>Can you post you dd’s gpa without the Math? If her gpa w/o math is high. I would suggest a true reach for her. U Chicago…</p>
<p>U of C has a core for every student, in the Math section you only need one Quarter of Statistics… That is all. Other than that, 5 quarters of Science or Bio…the rest of the core and major courses are all humanities, social sciences and others.</p>
<p>Don;t say its not possible, but with her score it is on the edge and with a killer essay that may tip her in. I’d say UChicago is much better than CTCL schools.</p>
<p>I haven’t read this whole thread but I hope the OP’s daughter is considering an SAT optional school. There are a bunch of schools that do NOT require the SAT or ACT. Seems like this student would benefit from such an application. There are some excellent SAT optional schools. Bates, Muhlenberg, are two I can think of off the top of my head.</p>
<p>Would she consider Wesleyan? I believe they very holistically look at applications. </p>
<p>I’m sorry to hear your tour of Chapman was so poor. Ours was in the top three of the 28 tours we went on with our two kids. It was seriously a terrific tour and we liked the school. It was not strong in science or math, which were our kid’s interests.</p>
<p>Poppymom, it sounds as if we have the same daughter! Have you considered Earlham? They have an analytical reasoning requirement that can be fulfilled by taking symbolic logic. Don’t be put off by its Quaker affiliation (my agnostic daughter initially rejected any school that had a religious affiliation), as they are not evangelical in any way and only 10% or so of the kids there are Quaker. They have a part-time (I believe) Rabbi and a Jewish Student Union. Politically liberal, with no Greek system. We visited there this past weekend and D loved it. Their mission statement on the web site has sealed the deal (for me at least!).</p>