Dear Life – December CC Book Club Selection

[psychmom]

<p>NJTM, I am so very sorry.</p>

[psychmom]

<p>ignatius, thank you for all the links…will put together some comments in a little while.</p>

[mathmom]

<p>I think Munro recognizes that she’s flawed. Isn’t that what the last line of “Dear Life” is all about? She wants forgiveness more than sympathy.</p>

<p>“The Eye”, was an interesting anecdote. I liked the idea of having a memory that the product of some magical thinking and knowing it can’t be true. I have a memory of being able to fly - I know it must be a memory of a dream, but it doesn’t feel like a dream. And then there are all the childhood memories that when we compare notes we find that we don’t remember the same things at all. I thought it was interesting that it’s revealed that Sadie would have been out of their life not because of her death, but because she’d recently quit to work for the creamery.</p>

<p>“Night”, another little anecdote, discovering that someone who you don’t seem to like much, and are supposed to love, can say just the right thing and show his love in just the right way.</p>

<p>“Voices”, such an odd story. It seemed so odd to bring a young (how young it was hard to tell) child to a dance. Young enough not to really understand what was going on, old enough to be aroused by the behavior of the young soldiers. </p>

<p>Final tale, “Dear Life”, which provides the title to the collection, seemed really disjointed to me. While the first of these stories is about her childhood, her first caretaker and the death of magical thinking, the second about her awakening sexuality, the third about her father, I think this was meant to be a tribute to her mother who despite her unsatisfactoriness saved her from the scary Mrs. Netterfield, who was probably pretty harmless. And then she doesn’t go to her mother’s funeral, because she doesn’t believe in things like that. I don’t know. I find Munro as she depicts herself a somewhat disturbing person. All the characters in the stories who seem most based on her (all those poets!) are pretty unsympathetic. Four important turning points in her life, that illustrate her concerns and obsessions.</p>

<p>Oh and reading the interviews, I saw that the book written by the daughters mentions that one of her own children almost died in a hotel pool. I guess that must have provided the germ of the idea for “Gravel.”</p>

<hr>

<p>NJTM so sorry about your friend.</p>

[ignatius]

<p>

I think Munro recognizes that she’s flawed. Isn’t that what the last line of “Dear Life” is all about? She wants forgiveness more than sympathy.

</p>

<p>Yes and no. She recognizes her flaws. I don’t know that she wants sympathy or forgiveness but rather she’s come to terms with who she is and has moved on (forgiven herself, if you will). I never got the impression that she would do anything differently.</p>

[mathmom]

<p>Yes, I agree. I don’t think she cares about other people much at all, except as things to write about of course.</p>

[psychmom]

<p>Some thoughts:</p>

<p>I liked Munro’s writing style…I am not sure of the terms and such, but it was easily readable. I also liked how she piqued my interest so quickly and I was drawn in to read further. I guess I am not a very patient reader; if I am not engaged by a third of the way into the novel, I start to get disappointed. Of course, these are short stories and Munro is forced to get us started. She does a good job, imo.</p>

<p>The content is disturbing. I began to think of Munro as some sort of witch - drawing me in and then cleverly playing with my emotions. It’s frustrating. And she’s not giving me the “why’s” that I love so much. She’s a withholding witch. But I can’t toss her aside.</p>

<p>I am left feeling critical of her. I have spent my life trying to figure out the “why’s” of things, and I keep coming back to the conclusion that sometimes there are no answers. Human behavior often times cannot be explained. It just is. Munro seems to understand that…she is ahead of me, and I have to give credit where it’s due.</p>

<p>The glimpses into her own life were, to say the least, unpleasant. She is tough and resilient, yet has an underlying sensitivity. I think what’s missing is a sense of warmth. She is not doling out any fuzzies, but that’s okay.</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>

Originally posted by Mathmom
I find Munro as she depicts herself a somewhat disturbing person.</p>

<p>I don’t think she cares about other people much at all, except as things to write about of course.

</p>

<p>Maybe she’s just more honest than a lot of us.</p>

[psychmom]

<p>In The NY Times article, Munro says (regarding retirement):</p>

<p>“There is a nice feeling about being just like everyone else now. But it also means that the most important thing in my life is gone. No, not the most important thing. The most important was my husband, and now they’re both gone.”</p>

<p>I thought it was interesting that she omitted her kids.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>First, I want to say to NJTheatreMOM that I was very sorry to hear of ugadog99’s passing. I was touched by ActingDad’s affectionate tribute. It’s wonderful how strong the bonds between CC members can be – and how lasting. </p>

<p>This seems like a good opportunity to mention again to all of you how grateful I am for your virtual presence. This group has been a real delight over the years: expanding my literary horizons, challenging my way of thinking, and making me laugh – a lot. So thank you. :)</p>

<p>

@ignatius

Rather than sympathy for Munro I thought “How sharper than a serpent’s tooth it is to have a thankless child.”

</p>

<p>

@psychmom

I thought it was interesting that she omitted her kids.

</p>

<p>Given Munro’s harshness toward her mother and her admitted mild neglect (emotional if not physical) of her children, I wondered whether there would be a “what goes around, comes around” scenario with her own grown children. However, it appears from the book review that ignatius posted (Lives of Mothers and Daughters) that Munro’s daughter Sheila expresses both affection and tolerance for her mother. </p>

<p>

…thankfully, this is no get-revenge-on-mom book. Sheila Munro clearly loves and respects her mother. She’s as interested in what makes Alice Munro tick as we are, and that’s why we aren’t really interested in her. Sheila saves the rush of feelings of jealousy and inadequacy until the last few pages of the book: “She is the gold standard by which everything else is measured, to whom everyone else is compared,” she writes, “And I can understand why. I do not disagree. It’s just that it makes her into an icon and I don’t suppose anyone wants their mother, or their father for that matter, to become an icon.”

</p>

[Mary13]

<p>ignatius, thanks for the VQR article. I was particularly aware of the non-linear structure with “Train.” The flexibility in Munro’s style often forced me to go back and review a story again to better understand the progression of events.</p>

<p>

@mathmom

And then she doesn’t go to her mother’s funeral, because she doesn’t believe in things like that.

</p>

<p>

@ignatius

I never got the impression that she would do anything differently.

</p>

<p>Alice Munro not going to her mother’s funeral really bothered me. I thought, “Even Uncle Jasper went to the funeral.” Interestingly, she puts herself in the category of Neal, not a character that I would particularly want people to compare me to.</p>

<p>From “Gravel”:</p>

<p>

Neal didn’t believe in funerals, so he didn’t attend Caro’s.

</p>

<p>From “Dear Life” about her decision not to go to the funeral:</p>

<p>

We could barely have afforded the trip, and my husband had a contempt for formal behavior, but why blame it on him? I felt the same.

</p>

<p>My sense, however, is that she would have made a different decision if she could go back in time. Maybe it’s because she uses the word “felt” instead of “feel.” Or maybe it’s because of the next sentence, the last one of the book (and perhaps her career), where I read regret as well as acceptance. I think it’s true that Munro lacks warmth (per psychmom) and that she doesn’t want sympathy or forgiveness from us (per ignatius). She doesn’t give a darn what we think of her, but she allows us a glimmer of what she thinks of herself, and it isn’t always pretty.</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>All of this speculation about Alice Munro is interesting, but I feel that what is most worthwhile about the study of any work of fiction is an analysis of the text. I have to admit that it always makes me slightly uncomfortable when there is a lot of discussion about what the text may or may not reveal about the personality of the author. :)</p>

<p>Of course, when something is declared to be autobiographical, you have to think about what the author is saying about herself.</p>

<p>Some of these authors surely do make you curious. I recently went on a Haruki Murakami kick. The first novel I read by him was so strange and different that I couldn’t wait to read more by him to try to figure out what made him tick. After reading three or four of his novels, I had some idea of the usual patterns in his writing, and at that point I finally did break down and read an interview!</p>

<p>I’d like to read more Alice Munro in order to see what themes from Dear Life she elaborates in her other work. Just which collection I wish to start with, I’ll have to consider carefully.</p>

[Mary13]

<p>

@NJTheatreMOM

Of course, when something is declared to be autobiographical, you have to think about what the author is saying about herself.

</p>

<p>Exactly.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t feel so free to indulge in arm chair psychology for the average author, but Munro absolutely opens herself up to it by giving us that preface before her last four chapters.</p>

[mathmom]

<p>And those last four chapter are both different and yet so much the same as what has preceded it, that you really do have to wonder. And the preface certainly means you end up asking those questions.</p>

<p>It’s funny because my favorite novels are generally fantasy, sci fi or historical fiction. The only contemporary novelists I’ve read in quantity are Anne Tyler, Penelope Lively (who wrote a memoir so I know something about her life), and Jon Hassler. They all have their themes that get repeated in endless variations, but they don’t seem as obviously based on their own life as Munro’s work. That’s probably a little unfair to Munro since many stories (say Train for example) have characters who I think she would say are very different from herself, and yet in this collection, it ends up seeming like just another aspect of her personality or at least of her obsessions due to her guilt or memories or whatever about her past experiences.</p>

[ignatius]

<p>I think it’s more than just the chapters declared “autobiographical” by Munro.</p>

<p>According to her oldest daughter Sheila (with Jenny being the younger daughter):</p>

<p>

All of her life, Sheila had read her mother’s stories and seen her family’s history played out on paper, as characters reenacted things like the tumultuous relationship her parents navigated for years before finally divorcing, or the time 4-year-old Jenny nearly drowned in a hotel swimming pool on a family vacation.

</p>

<p>It’s hard not to speculate when you read a Munro short story and then an interview with her. You realize that her stories and her life are linked - from something so simple as setting to more complex issues.</p>

<p>I do think some authors remain invisible while some invite speculation. (Remember Simon Mawer (The Glass Room.) To me, Munro invites speculation.</p>

[psychmom]

<p>I would like to read more of Munro, but I’d want to do so with this group!</p>

<p>Mary, thank you for leading the way through another wonderful year of exploration. Although my participation has been uneven, I have read the books and followed the discussions. And thanks, fellow groupies, for enriching my world so very much.</p>

<p>Oh…please wish me luck tomorrow! I am flying home (on Friday the 13th) and I have a touch of…get this…friggatriskaidekaphobia. Mary, I am counting on you for lucky 13 :)</p>

[Mary13]

<p>^ It’s always done right by me – I’ll send some of the magic your way! </p>

<p>The floor is now open for our next selection!</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>We once talked about reading something by a Native American author. How about one of Sherman Alexie’s short story collections?</p>

<p>Did anybody else feel that Munro’s short stories lent themselves very well to group discussion? It would be interesting, after Alice Munro, to follow up with a very different kind of short story writer.</p>

<p>I’m also still interested in Elizabeth Gilbert’s The Signature of All Things.</p>

[mathmom]

<p>Have a good flight psychmom!</p>

<p>And Mary, I want to ditto the thanks. I have really enjoyed stretching my reading tastes. I wouldn’t get nearly as much out of these stories without you guys.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t mind reading Elizabeth Gilbert’s The Signature of All Things. I had zippo interest in reading Eat, Pray, Love. I’d be happy to read something Native American, but I have to admit, that while I thought short stories are a great format for discussion, I’m not in love with them for reading. That said I’m not adamant on the subject at all. There was a South African romance that sounded fun that came up before, can’t remember the title.</p>

[NJTheatreMOM]

<p>Mathmom, when you say “South African romance” are you talking about Americanah? I’ve read it and it’s great. I’d be happy to read it again and discuss it. I think Ignatius may have read it too.</p>

[mathmom]

<p>Nope, though I wouldn’t mind reading that either. Americanah was West Africa! If I go through the old suggestion friends I’ll find it, or not. Not a big deal.</p>