<p>Those who can do, those who can’t, teach - or some such nonsense :(</p>
<p>Impersonal: Do you want your kids to go to a college where most teachers are those “who can’t”? That may be the end result of using the supply and demand argument to justify low salaries.</p>
<p>Well, sometimes you actually just need the damn class. That quarter. </p>
<p>But, the other thing is that the 20 percent of professors who might be horrible for my snowflake are not the same 20 percent who might be horrible for your snowflake. Mine tended to get along really well with professors other people thought were “tough.” She sometimes had issues with professors who needed to have their ego stroked. </p>
<p>She figured it out. Sometimes your grade is based on how well you figure out the professor and sometimes it is based on how well you figure out the material. Just depends.</p>
<p>All that aside, Exhausted Dad, we seem to have hijacked your thread! :eek: apologies.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure my son had a much better experience with profs than the 20:60:20 mentioned by poetgirl in post #138. One ticked him off by being unclear about expectations and, in another class, he found the material not very interesting, but, in 4 years of classes, I’d call that pretty darn good. Profs at his school are expected to focus on teaching. Lots of them do research, but teaching is the focus. I don’t think they have TAs or adjuncts.</p>
<p>I think the reason this digression has come up here is because it doesn’t take much to bring a GPA down below 3.6. That seems to be something we all agree on, even the OP at this point.</p>
<p>Has ExhaustedDad talked to the 3.6 scholarship folks? I know someone in a program where it was officially necessary to maintain a specific GPA. In reality, a student below that GPA just went on probation until the grades improved. No one ever actually lost the scholarship. All programs are different. It might be worth checking out. I wouldn’t have wanted my kids to be worried about that 3.6 even though they were such super special snowflakes.</p>
<p>An aside: I am really liking “snowflakes” - genderless, and appropriate for all ages. Much better than S, D, child, kid. imho ymmv</p>
<p>snowflake is the truth of the matter, though I am also rather partial to kiddo.</p>
<p>Maybe this is the eternal optimist in me but I assume that those who are teaching despite the less than stellar pay are there because they actually enjoy teaching.</p>
<p>I fully admit I was incredibly spoiled. I’ve only had two bad profs in my four years. Some of my favorites are others’ bad profs because they don’t hand out 4.0s like candy.</p>
<p>I know there are bad profs just like there are bad people in every job. I just can’t imagine they’re as bad as many students and parents make them out to be.</p>
<p>Yeah, my definition of a useless prof is one where you could learn the material just as well from the book.</p>
<p>So, maybe my standards are too high. I’ve certainly been accused of that in this life.</p>
<p>romani - I think you are absolutely right those who teach do so for higher motives than money. ex: Sylvan (I hope that is okay to say, sylvan?) However, at the point they don’t have health insurance and can’t afford to raise a family, they will probably not continue teaching. I am feeling blue because one of my snowflakes has left academia. Still, I can count on having several impoverished snowflakes so all is not lost. </p>
<p>kiddo is good. however - I would really like to see snowflake spread board wide and out into the public at large. I intend to start introducing it into my community this week.</p>
<h1>147 one of my snowflakes would be okay with this professor - IF and ONLY IF - there were bibliography lists that wouldn’t have been easily available otherwise. However, he might have just taken those lists day one and then dropped :)</h1>
<p>I’ll join you on the snowflake movement.</p>
<p>Did your snowflake consider some of the flagships in the northwest? </p>
<p>Sad when they have to give up on the dream.</p>
<p>I didn’t even realize they were snowflakes until too late to consider the northwest and the better fit.</p>
<p>I could still fuss about it though, if you like?</p>
<p>I don’t credit my own snowflakes for all their accomplishments. I specialize in high risk students, most of whom are low income. Believe me, the accomplishments of my own snowflakes would not be possible without my comfortable lifestyle. </p>
<p>And while all the profs I know are certainly not perfect, I’ve yet to meet more than 2 or 3 (in over 20 years) who were really so arrogant they didn’t care.</p>
<p>Ordinary Lives–</p>
<p>I hope it is clear to you from my posts that I really don’t consider it to be the “fault” of the professor. I just think every once in a while you are going to run into somebody who doesn’t “work” for you. If you only need to pass or get a B? So what?</p>
<p>If you “have to get an A- or B+?” It’s just more complicated.</p>
<p>As I said, in the absence of the GPA requirement, I don’t event think its worth talking about.</p>
<p>As for you, working with high risk students? I already KNOW how hard you are working.</p>
<p>I also hope you have tenure. I personally believe that this move towards adjuncts, unless the instructor prefers this, is rather criminal.</p>
<p>I would be more concern about the weeder courses. He will probably be in classes with pre-meds for chemistry and organic chemistry. By design these could have a rough curve designed to thin out the herd.</p>
<p>Sequenced prerequisites are automatically “weeder” courses, since instructors in the more advanced courses would not like the idea of students passing the introductory courses without really knowing the material that is assumed to be known for the more advanced courses.</p>
<p>glowworm, your statement “Your bit about tenure really got to me. Will your son refuse to take a course with a tenured prof? Since you are so involved, will you refuse to let him? Walk the walk or just talk the talk?” is childish gibberish. My point, as well as some others, was regarding some of the horror stories I have heard regarding bias against certain political persuasions, certain religions, etc… Do they happen all of time? Probably not, but I do know that those teachers that exhibited this pathetic behavior hid behind the veil of the sacred tenure; kind of like foreign diplomats hiding behind the immunity they are afforded even when they have committed crimes in the U.S…</p>
<p>If it happens to one of our kids, then yes, we get ****ed; get it? Late papers or other non-excuses aren’t what I personally was referring to since I don’t find those to be legitimate reasons for kids to complain about a grade. Bias or personality conflicts are another thing; again, get it? </p>
<p>One last thing, we are the customer, get it again? Many are paying full tuition plus obscene amounts for room and board to rent a tiny little space. Professors or Adjuncts or TA’s are there to teach our children and many or most do it well; kudos to them. However, just like any other profession their are bad eggs and when they are in a union or have similar situations like tenure, well, they are safe to do as they please with little recourse from the victim. </p>
<p>Anyway, didn’t want this thread to turn into a rant on tenure nor do I want any of the professors who read this to believe that it is pointed at them. Those that are the bad eggs know fully well who they are.</p>
<p>^^Since I’m on sort of a roll lately I’ll just say it:</p>
<p>your post is kind of ignorant.</p>
<p>“I assume that those who are teaching despite the less than stellar pay are there because they actually enjoy teaching.” - That’s often the case. We heard an engineering dept head speak, and he said new PhD’s from his school were earning more than him. (Then he grinned and said, "but he had to move to Houston). However I think there are some areas (like a specialized history major) where many of the PhD jobs are in academia.</p>
<p>Thank you, Poetgirl, for the kind words, but I will never have tenure. I work for a TRIO grant, soft money. The irony? I’ve outlived many who are on supposedly hard money. I think I understand what you are saying about the high scholarship GPA requirement. I’m not sure I agree though. A scholarship with a requirement that high should be reserved for only the truly exceptional. And even then, there’s wiggle room for a some B’s and maybe even a C. Now, if a scholarship with a cutoff that high is being awarded to students who are not exceptional enough to maintain it, then yeah, there’s an issue with fin aid and or the committee that awards the scholarship. Now, would I suggest my own kids take that risk? No, because I’m not sure they’re exceptional students. My comfortable lifestyle has certainly not been comfortable enough to include private schools and some of the other academic experiences of the wealthy. Are they competitive enough against those kids? Maybe, but I wouldn’t be comfortable with that risk.</p>
<p>Trio is a really good program. I think the effectiveness is very high.</p>
<p>alh, I’ll simply consider the source and not be too offended…</p>