<p>Oh good, finalchild is back. I hope you read my above post. It was directed at you. I don’t appreciate you cutting and pasting a comment that I made on another thread to call me out as a hypocrite. You know nothing about me.</p>
<p>I am so lucky my kids were enthusiastic but not all that successful athletes in HS. Some of my nicest memories are sitting in the bleachers cheering for other people’s more talented children; bonding with other parents over our kids; knowing who to call when there was a question about After-prom supervision or another dicey social situation. I didn’t show up with a book; I never expected to make “friends for life” but in my own utilitarian way, always figured there was more to gain and nothing to lose by being friendly and chatty. Sometimes the “mean girl” moms (not their D’s, but the Mom’s themselves) could phone the school administration and make something happen in a way that I couldn’t; sometimes planting a bug in someone’s ear can make a problem go away before it escalates; sometimes watching the social interactions among both the parents and the kids can help you advise your own kid on navigating a difficult relationship.</p>
<p>Nobody could have been jealous of my children’s “Best Attitude” trophies at awards night; nobody could have thought me disinterested in watching other kids play (I shlepped a bag of band-aids, extra bottles of water, hand sanitizer, baby wipes, etc. so the coaches loved me); and yet I didn’t invest in either the sport, the “community” of sports parents, or the kids.</p>
<p>Win-win. Yes, I would have loved to have read my book (I hate sports and I love to read) but the time spent faking an interest usually paid off. I got a moronic pick up time from a major school trip moved without lifting a finger (had a Queen Bee do my dirty work); got a security guard hired for After Prom (technically not a school event) without my kid ever knowing it was me; etc. Sometimes “investing” in these short term relationships is just good business. And if the other parents were catty to me-- which perhaps they were- well, that’s what therapy is for. Worth every penny.</p>
<p>Blossom, I so agree. One of the things I’ll miss most when my last child goes away to school next year will be the sports. Sure, there have been some annoying parents. But, many of the friends I made came from sitting in the bleachers for the last twenty years. I honestly wouldn’t trade a minute of it.</p>
<p>And, I’m an introvert!</p>
<h1>361 is popcorn worthy.</h1>
<p>There’s a big difference between dwelling on and being taken over by reactions and having no reactions at all. As I suggested closer to the beginning of this thread, or maybe it was the thread that was closed, I think we all have twinges, reactions, radar, whatever you want to label it…without which we wouldn’t even know how to navigate through a day. </p>
<p>I’ll use myself as an example in this very thread. I was trying not to talk much about my own kids or where they are going to school [although because of the sensitivities and the way things are probably none of us get to talk about our kids as much as we might like, excepting spouses, grandparents). I considered it, but I know part of me didn’t do it because I already was getting killed and I already was getting knocked for “name-dropping.” So I tried to present the relative omissions as pretty magnanimous, but it was mostly selfish or at least self-preservation. Then a couple of people kept asking, to the degree that it seemed “legit enough” to reveal a bit. And then within that moment, there also were decision points. Instead of saying “Rochester…if doesn’t change mind about Macalester,” I could have said nothing in addition to Rochester or at least said “if doesn’t change mind in the next few hours” without naming any other school. But I have to admit that Rochester and Macalester sound better together than alone, and creates at least a slightly different impression that Rochester alone (and this is partly because I know UR is a bit of sleeper school, still a bit lesser known or on the fringe for some). [Aside: One of the best days is the day one is holding ALL of the acceptances, and the sadness about giving the others up isn’t just feeling bad for the school that “did nothing wrong” but also giving up something “earned,” something that sounds better as a whole…and even if the pick is Harvard, tossing in a few more sounds even better.] And then oldfort gave me a defensible opportunity to note other acceptances, which again, I think was defensible in context but I still took advantage of in an opportunistic way. </p>
<p>Anyway, I think most of us do this stuff all the time. It’s normal. But we do it. I remember a kid who got smacked a couple of months when she got waitlisted at WUSTL and said smart and sharp like “no worries Wash U, I’m going to MIT.” Funny how this works, but there is a bit of human nature in all of us.</p>
<p>Sorry Viewer, check out #385.</p>
<p>It was hard to read your post and not think of course you’re thinking you don’t care because you can trump these fools anytime you want. </p>
<p>How do YOU think your post sounded???</p>
<p>I like you blossom…regardless if you like me back. You have a real maturity and lack of defensiveness about you.</p>
<p>finalchild- you might want to take a look at the thread below this one on “Top Private Day Schools.” If you don’t grant the power of regional differences in what you’re experiencing, I think you’re not seeing the big picture. The northeast is an elite educational bubble unlike anything else in the country.</p>
<p>Yes, maybe that IS what I meant and I’ll probably get flamed for saying that. This response really belongs on that other thread, but indulge me for a bit. My point was that most of those awards given out in our town (and I’ve been to many Awards Nights) are flawed. I learned early on that it wasn’t the most capable kids (in any given area) that got the awards. It was the connected kids that got the awards. It is the same family names year after year, the “townie” names that reap the prizes. So, early on I realized that these awards mean very little to my family. And, yes, my kids’ acceptances to top schools mean more to me. I’ll bet a lot of people feel that way. I didn’t realize it would be so offensive.</p>
<p>I will take a look moonchild. Did you also notice that just today there are two new threads about Should I Go for the Prestige Choice?</p>
<p>I agree that there is regionalism. Believe me, I know what it is like in New England. That’s partly why I didn’t particularly want my kids going to New England colleges. But aside from the prestige/narcissism/prestige issues in New England the competition is fierce and so from a kid’s perspective the odds are tougher for them than they might be in other parts of the country (although I assume NYC area, DC/northern VA area, some areas of CA, and maybe some others are similar).</p>
<p>That said, my point is resentment, narcissistic needs, disappointment, joy and pride, etc, etc are not phenomena only experienced in New England. Emotions are emotions, and we ALL have them.</p>
<p>Viewer, it wasn’t offensive. It was an example. That was another error on my part. I apologize. I was more caught up in people on this thread saying something doesn’t exist right when I was simultaneously seeing evidence of it in about 10 different places in the site with just a cursory look (and I think I pretty consistently have included myself in the “critique”). I lose my manners when I run into denial that makes me insane…which is why sally305 no doubt was right that the site is not healthy for me :). But then again, my fatal flaws are with me whether I’m on this site or not :)</p>
<p>Yes, we all have emotions. We can accept our emotions as valid, but we can also delve deeper into why we have the emotions that we do and why we have the reactions we do. For example, finalchild, it took some digging for you to get to the point that you feared that kids were now being forced to be on straight-and-narrow-paths from day one, and what does that mean when you are someone who didn’t choose a straight-and-narrow path? GFG takes comments from other parents very much to heart. She would be sensitive to being termed “anti-social” in a way that I wouldn’t. That’s not saying either one of us is better / more right than the other, but it bears examining. She also responded to the Brad comment in a very strong way – might it be that deep down she does fear that her kids might be perceived as “hogging the limelight” and that would conflict with a deeply held core value? (By NO MEANS am I suggesting that her kids are indeed “hogging any limelight” or are anything other than great kids who fully and completely deserve whatever kudos come their way. I’m commenting on what the subject touches in her that she was unable to laugh Brad off.) That’s the kind of thing I’m talking about here. </p>
<p>And back to the thread title – “decal anxiety.” There’s a HUGE difference, IMO, between worrying that your children won’t be able to get into a “good” school (however you define good), and worrying that the decal of the school won’t impress the neighbors sufficiently. And I find it quite interesting that finalchild started this with the specific use of the word “decal anxiety.” Coupled with the post above in which he is talking about Rochester and Macalester and which is more impressive and so forth, that tells me that finalchild has a lot wrapped up in what other people think. Which is worth deconstructing. It all is.</p>
<p>But you can’t deconstruct unless it’s out there. And you get it out there unless yoiu can acknowledge having it. What happens a lot is someone trying to open up, and then getting nailed for “gee, you are waaaayy too concerned with what other people think.” It’s possible that that person actually thinks about such things LESS, but putting it out there opens then up to the critique while the persons critiquing can keep saying “I don’t even experience anything like that.” I won’t but I can find you literally hundreds of examples like the Rochester-Macalester one. And of course when I mention the word ‘Rochester’ I am very aware that sooner or later, and oldfort delivered, someone is going to chime in with “good school…but.” The same way someone with Duke or Amherst or whatever knows what the general common stereotypes are regarding “their” school. And the “decal anxiety” obviouslyhas a bit of truth but I chose it for symbolic and interest-generating value. But I’ll give you another example folks can use on me. One of my kids seriously considered Wooster. And I am sure if he/she had chosen it that I frequently would have answered the ‘what school’ question with something like “yeah Wooster, it’s the original CTCL school…great, great school…” and I would be thinking to myself but wouldn’t say because would make me look too concerned “one of the best schools in the country…as good as the Ivies.” And that is sad, because I actually do believe that and wish the name value wasn’t like it is. As I also have said before, ven the smartest of the smartest kids couldn’t exhaust more than 5% of the total of what is academically available at these other schools that should be much more highly valued than they are.</p>
<p>"…but we can also delve deeper into why we have the emotions that we do and why we have the reactions we do."</p>
<p>Pizzagrl, and the above you wrote is exactly what I have found lacking at times in this and other threads.</p>
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</p>
<p>So, unpack it already, finalchild. We can’t unpack your emotions for you. </p>
<p>So, here goes. </p>
<p>What prevents you from answering, “My kid is going to Wooster; he’s so happy about it and we’re so happy for him!” and stopping right there? </p>
<p>What feelings does that engender in you, and why does it feel uncomfortable to stop there? What makes you think that it is necessary to “justify” Wooster by “original CTCL, really good school,” and so forth? </p>
<p>Why do you need to reassure other people that your son is attending a good school? Are you concerned that they’ll only be happy / supportive if the school is deemed “good enough” by their standards? What if they don’t consider Wooster a good school? Does that matter to you? How will you feel if that’s the case?</p>
<p>You want to unpack these emotions … go right ahead! Those are the questions to start with.</p>
<p>In a society with a sagging economy it’s natural to be concerned for our kids’ success, and there are rich and powerful folks who seem to have it in the bag, even though in reality they don’t. And it’s natural to covet bright, ahiny things, even when they don’t really contain greater use value.</p>
<p>However, most of our children will negotiate life based on their inner qualities more than their paper resumes, and sometimes failure and adversity build character and lead to great outcomes too. S saved himself years of drifting by falling down and getting back up.</p>
<p>I had an Ivy acceptance to grad school which I decided against, but really my lack of impressive success in my field had more to do with my hippie ways than my unprepossessing PhD.</p>
<p>It’s fun to imagine Santa putting Yale under our Christmas tree, but my dad, a professional marketing executive, always taught me that generic, store brands were the same product, no disrespect to Yale, a great school, intended.</p>
<p>I don’t think that even a Yale decal would have saved my kids from “the curse of the humanities.” They are less hire able, so I can’t even brag about amazing post-grad success. :)</p>
<p>They will get there.</p>
<p>FWIW, not to say anything amiss, I <em>do</em> think both Macalester and Rochester fine schools, not that my opinion should matter.</p>
<p>No worries–I was not at all offended by the URM comment. I don’t think that was a contributing factor in the case of D’s cohorts’ parents. First, it’s usually me at the school and sports events. I’m as typical Caucasian as they come and D is not obviously URM-looking. Our name is an unclear marker too, so most people may not have realized. Also, the top academic kids knew D was smart as she was in all the same AP classes as they were. People would also assume that she got a very high SAT score since she got National Merit and that list was very well-publicized.</p>
<p>If it was anything like that, it could have been her recruited athlete status that bugged people. But even then, she did get a lot of publicity for her sport, so anyone who cared to pay attention would have known she was legit. However, I’ve noticed that some people have a sense of fairness that dictates a balance–no one should have too much. We all know folks who think there’s no such thing as a smart athlete. But if the athlete truly is a top student, that could tick people off. Jealous parents want to be able to say things like, “Well, maybe John’s a good player, but my son is focusing on his academics which is better. It’s not like John is ever going to play for a living!” or “John’s all brawn and no brain,” or “She’s good but she’s stuck up.” They want to level the playing field and get angry if they can’t quite manage to do it.</p>
<p>Pizzgrl, you are obviously a smart cookie. Certainly a formidable person to “chat” with. But you’re also arrogant and act like you are 4 steps ahead of everyone else. </p>
<p>Why can’t you see my examples as illustrative (of what many, including you, experience)? Instead of revelatory (of me only)? You do this with others as well.</p>
<p>What would happen if you had engaged those folks in the stands at tennis? Why didn’t you? If you were THAT busy you wouldn’t have time to be here all day long. You can’t see that in the approach you took you were judging the scene and situating yourself in relation to them (above them…wanting nothing to do with them)?</p>
<p>And, I am unpacked. At least to an extent. I’m asking why you can’t do some unpacking. You don’t facilitate greater honesty on a board when you treat disclosures as only emblematic of the person sharing them.</p>
<p>Final- I love you back. I admit- the first sip was a little bitter. But now that I’ve got the full frosty mug in front of me, you’re like that interesting ale you’re glad you ordered, even though your gut was saying, “order a Miller lite. Tastes great, fewer calories.”</p>
<p>I just want to reassure those of you whose kids are still in HS or college. By the time college graduation rolls around, so much of this stuff has vanished. Poof.</p>
<p>Some of it’s tragedy- parents with a horrible illness, and you’re delivering casseroles on your night, and being “the bigger person” who forgets that this person was nasty about your kid and their successes and sniped at you about it. Or sad but not tragic- the kid who was uber successful in HS and the parents who never stopped bragging about it, who has lost his way in college and is having trouble getting back on track.</p>
<p>And some of it’s comic. The child of the prestige hounds who spent a semester in London on her way to becoming a bigshot something or other who fell in love with a local and is tending bar for tips until her work permit comes through. The kid who was destined for Med School who is now becoming a massage therapist. Which has sent the parents into therapy.</p>
<p>Etc. I don’t mean this in a schadenfreude way… just that you are living through a very narrow window during which parents can pat themselves on the back about their allegedly superior genes and parenting skills. And then real life kicks in when said children are about 21 or 22 years old, the escalator which was supposed to take their kids ever higher and higher starts to stall, and reality just bites everyone on the tush.</p>
<p>So take heart.</p>
<p>How many times on this site, even in passing, have you all come across this kind of statement…“my kid is going to the state flagship on a full ride… and he turned down Yale”? It’s like the parents who qualify their kids D3 athletic commitment with “he went D3 because academics are so important to him… but he’s really a D1 level player and had numerous D1 offers.”</p>
<p>Great post, blossom, even without the embrace :)</p>
<p>And very true. Even with this college angst, I have seen that a good many kids LOVE their schools. When my son picked Kenyon over Colby I was anxious, even though it was my preference also. Kenyon seemed a little more foreign and a little more risk and not as well known in New England, but within 2 weeks he was so happy and so feeling like he was in the right place. [That’s really what all of us want when you weed-whack through all the thickets I’m talking about.] And even though Colby had been a dream school for close to 2 years leading up to the final choice, I know he’s hardly thought about it again at all. And I am pretty sure the same will happen with our daughter. And yes, we’re all at ages where other BIG stuff will take over, like something with our own health and/or someone close to us.</p>