decal anxiety, linearity and washing away of identity development

Parents Forum
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<p>i don’t see button-pushing. at all. pushback and button-pushing are two separate animals. she started a decent thread (and hopefully it won’t turn into the usual “my kid’s college is better than your kid’s” nonsense). no, it’s not as regional as some claim. it’s a national issue which will eventually have national consequences. some are already convinced that K-12 kills creativity, and i agree. now the push to specialize (for the college-bound), or imprison (for those who aren’t so fortunate).</p>

<p>welcome to collegeconfidential, finalchild.</p>

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<p>@sally305 - I only sided after your first reply! And you would “encourage [me] to…”? This is exactly the tone I am referring to. What are you, my mother?</p>

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<p>I think finalchild knows his way around CC pretty well, probably knows CC better than some of us.</p>

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<p>Stepped out for a bit to catch up on Madmen :)</p>

<p>sally, first of all, in post #47, at the end there where you begin with “ETA:…” and the talk about stalking, are you talking to me there? I started the thread. I don’t think I’m stalking anyone.</p>

<p>Anyway, I am very sorry I ticked you off in that other thread. You are correct. That was an unfair shot. I was frustrated because it seemed and seems so clear to me that most of the folks who frequently frequent many of these threads have an interest in the elite colleges and the phenomenon of elite colleges and the process therein. I hope you can understand how I could react to someone telling in this thread that in their (expert) opinion the site is too stimulating in an unhealthy way for me because of pathologic preoccupation with elite colleges, prestige, etc. None of us know enough about each other to make those kinds of assertions, so we end up getting offended, responding in kind, and then we’re off and running. A lot of threads appear to deteriorate that way, and I do NOT think that is unique to CC but is found on almost all internet forums. </p>

<p>And I did not mean to imply that folks are not thinkers or don’t want to think. I’m just saying that frequently things get competitive, then are oneupsmanship kind of deals, and then sometimes offending back and forth. I apologize for my role, while also understanding that if I continue to post it’s likely to happen to some degree again. Since the ride with my last kid is coming to an end, maybe I will soon be off into the sunset, although I do help some other kids in our area and I enjoy the site.</p>

<p>Kennedy, I didn’t intend to be interpreted that way. I apologize. I don’t think the kids are phony. I think the process is obscenely difficult. I know enough to appreciate the talents of kids who get into all of the fine schools on the list. Seriously, for the kids who achieve those heights given the competition and demands to get there I applaud. I am not aware of any bitterness in this regard. My first kid applied to 12 schools, got in 10, waitlisted at 1, and rejected at 1. They were all “good to elite schools.” My kid this year applied to 13, got in 10, waitlisted at 2, and denied at 1. I’d rather not name their schools here right this second but you could find out if wanted to see badly enough. I had heard enough horror stories about fairly high end kids overshooting and/or getting shut out that we did our homework. Anyway, my interest in these topics is not motivated by some bitterness about the our results. No injustices visited our doorstep.</p>

<p>sally, in that last post #80, as I think you did earlier, I think your judgements are too quick and too sweeping. You say LBowie has been siding with me throughout the thread. Up until the post you responded to that would be a total of one post.</p>

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<p>^Fair enough. I should have been more precise with my words. By “siding with” I meant “sharing the perspective of,” since you and LBowie seem to share similar POVs (PsOV?).</p>

<p>I actually think we are likely to agree more than we disagree (not that disagreement can’t be healthy or productive). I understand where you are coming from much of the time. And we both seem to believe that the current college-admissions process is madness for many kids. How about we both just do our best to not make assumptions about each other’s motivations or jump to conclusions about what is said versus unsaid…deal? :)</p>

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<p>Our kids had no interest in the “elite” colleges. We have never had a copy of USNWR in this house. We did not know or care about the college rankings when our kids were looking at colleges. Our kids were not NMSF or vals. Guess what, I have still been an active participant on this forum. And our kids are both college grads, one with a masters too.</p>

<p>And yes, we proudly had their school decals on our cars, and also owned coffee mugs and sweatshirts from their schools.</p>

<p>So what?</p>

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<p>Time to pull up the chair and pop some popcorn??</p>

<p>OP- when a supposed relative newcomer comes on with flowery language and tells posters that there isnt much thinking going on here, can you not see how that can come across as supercilious and condescending? If you are truly new (which is being questioned by some), welcome. Come play in the sandbox. But play nice. The holier-than-thou tone is off-putting.</p>

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<p>jym626, yes, I get that. First I am definitely new and who I say I am. I hope you can see that there are some long-timers here who come across VERY confidently and can be surgical in cutting to quick if they don’t like something they see. I’m guessing you won’t be surprised that I have received quite an impressive number of PMs from other long-timers telling me to hang in there and applauding my input.</p>

<p>And yes, sally, I will try my best. I really do mean no harm, but I’m not a fool either (or at least not a 100% fool).</p>

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<p>I read the title of this post earlier today when it started and I decided I did not understand what the post was even about except the anxiety about not measuring up or keeping up with the Jones or something… I decided I would not comment, because I do not worry about college decals much and I’ve never heard of linearity and identity washing as used here. Coming back tonight, I still do not understand some of the gobbledygook stuff, although I can see the CC brain power at work! I am actually relieved to see I am not the only one scratching my head… phew… :)<br>
Mamabear1234- You and I speak the same language.</p>

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<p>In defense of the kids when you read the websites they all look alike and read alike. With kids applying to more than 5 these days and many not able to go visit schools spanning the nation I can understand why there are posts like “Duke better than Michigan” or “Grinnell or Kenyon.” But more often than not you will find parents that tell the students to figure out which one fits them. It is more often the kids who are answering Well xyz is ranked 23 and abc is ranked 20 or go to abc. So I don’t completely “buy in” that parents are caught up in the race. If you really want to see some workhorse parents read the finaid threads in April, those are eye openers about what parents are really saying to each other and to students.</p>

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<p>Application consultant chiming in here. Go ahead, pile on. :wink: Also (of course) I’m in the NE.</p>

<p>In my professional experience, there are shades of gray being missed all over the place. Kids talk to me about “What’s a good school?” and I have to try to convince them that a good school means a good school for YOU. Developmentally, teenagers are always looking to rank, and honestly, they’re looking to their peers to define the rankings, even when it comes to applying to college. </p>

<p>“Georgetown is a really good school” isn’t the case if Georgetown doesn’t have the major you’re interested in. But many 17-year-olds are thinking myopically, about what they will tell their friends on April 1. Or they are listening to out-of-date pronouncements from an older generation. For those I can actually get through to, it’s a huge relief to discover that there are other criteria for choosing schools besides perceived bumper sticker value.</p>

<p>However, the other part of my job is to convince kids that it’s worth doing all they can to maximize their options. And yes, that means prepping for tests and keeping grades up.</p>

<p>When it comes to extra-curriculars and real life, the misunderstanding lies in the idea that a student has to give up one for the other. When I work with kids I help them discover that their extracurriculars should be genuine extensions of their real-life interests - and that in this case, the sky is (and should be) the limit. I encourage my students to dream big and think outside the box in their areas of interest. It’s a win-win situation; doing so will “look good to colleges” (a major concern for them and their families), enrich their lives and communities, and provide them with hours of enjoyment.</p>

<p>In my experience, if a student feels pressured by extracurricular activities and the need to declare a “major” in eighth grade, poor choices are being made - usually based on misunderstandings of what “elite” colleges are looking for anyway. Aiming high means commitment and hard work, sure, but not just applied randomly - and it should not make you miserable.</p>

<p>So, ultimately, part of what I end up doing is both redefining expectations and ramping up motivation. A delicate dance, but very gratifying. And yes, I manage to communicate this here in the prestige capital of the country.</p>

<p>(And yes, the “results” bear me out.)</p>

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<p>Well, I get the Latin, mathmom, but have no idea what school that is. (Sorry, Latin always brings out my snobbish streak.)</p>

<p>With regard to what finalchild is saying, I think there is a lot of college admissions status anxiety in quite a few places, though it might be most intense in NY/CT/MA/NJ and VA/MD/DC. Actually, you could probably develop a pretty fair map of the regions of greatest anxiety by just looking at the National Merit Semi-Finalist cut-off scores on a state-by-state basis. </p>

<p>I recall reading an article (in the New York Times, I think) about students in New Trier, IL who were skipping lunch in order to fit in an additional class, and thus presumably become more competitive. There was an article, definitely in the Times, about Newton North in MA, which sounded pretty intense. There seem to me to be a lot of areas where sleep deprivation is rampant.</p>

<p>It is shamefully easy to allow one’s child to fall into this trap. I recall knowing an older student who was in the same multi-age EC as QMP when QMP was in elementary school. “Older student,” in high school, never got to bed before midnight. I vowed that our family would not be that way . . . one of a few vows I couldn’t make good on.</p>

<p>I suppose that the hints were already there when I went to an elementary school science fair locally, and saw a second-grader’s project on piezoelectricity–and doubted that more than about 25% of my grad students could give an accurate physical explanation of the phenomenon.</p>

<p>The car decals are not common around here though. One of my friends had a cut-up decal based on his own post-doc university, which read:</p>

<p>STAN
FORD</p>

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<p>QM- its from Wellesley.</p>

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<p>In my case it’s from my high school, it’s attributed to Augustus Caesar among many others. [Festina</a> lente - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festina_lente]Festina”>Festina lente - Wikipedia) “Make haste slowly”, nice motto.</p>

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<p>And, hey, jym626, post #55, if you meant me, among the “few who like to talk about Math olympiad/International math competitions and their greater meaning to life,” please note that in my previous post, I did not mention math at all.</p>

<p>Actually though, I do think that mathematics is meaningful, in terms of the “greater meaning to life” category. There is breath-taking beauty and elegance in mathematics, for those who are inclined that way. Competition math occasionally “hits paydirt” in term of turning up some deep and elegant mathematics, but some of it strikes me as just “cute.”</p>

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<p>Well, your HS and Wellesley’s Davis Museum have a lot in common!!</p>

<p>BTW QM, I don’t think the NMSF scores completely support your statement above. There is certainly a concentration of higher scores in the NE, but also in AZ, CA, CO, GA, IL, MN, NC, OH, OR, TX, VT, WA and HI. (Do the math :slight_smile: ) . Do you could DE or DC i as in the NE?? What about PA. Oh, dont forget KS. Here are last year’s state cutoff scores for the Class of 2013:</p>

<p>AL 209; AK 204; AZ 212; AR 202; CA 220; CO 212; CT 218; DE 215; District of Columbia 221; FL 211; GA 214; HI 211; ID 207; IL 213; IN 211; IA 207; KS 212; KY 208; LA 209; ME 210; MD 219; MA 221; MI 207; MN 213; MS 204; MO 210; MT 203; NE 207; NV 208; NH 211; NJ 221; NM 208; NY 215; NC 213; ND 200; OH 212; OK 206; OR 213; PA 214; RI 211; SC 208; SD 204; TN 210; TX 216; UT 205; VT 214; VA 217; WA 216; WV 200; WI 207; WY 200; Commended 200; International 221; Boarding Schools 214-221; New England Boarding Schools 221; U.S. Territories 200</p>

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<p>QM, there are a handful who seem to light up like a christmas tree at the mere mention of the Math tests. PULEEEZE do not turn this into another of those threads.</p>

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<p>I am not sure that I understand what is meant by “linearity” and “nonlinearity” in this context, although I was guessing that the “linear” approach is one that proceeds along the most direct route to "success,’ with no side trips.</p>

<p>In the context of the early school years locally, I did notice a related phenomenon that drove me half-crazy. There were so many projects with such a short time-frame for completion that the students’ first ideas had to work out–there was no time for them to putter around, and perhaps hit upon a much better idea. (I realize that this is not exactly what the OP is talking about, but I think it is related.)</p>

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<p>It’s ok, jym626–I don’t actually think everything is about math. For example, this thread is not about math . . . yet. :)</p>

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<p>AAAGGGH!!! Maybe I should have appreciated the ransomit malware that CC gave me while I had it!!!</p>