<p>
No one is. Hence, do not apply ED if it’s not an acceptable offer.
You know, because…?
They won’t have to. All they would need to do is to send their ED list to all of its peer schools, and those schools could do what they will.</p>
<p>There is a story going around my S’s high school that a member of his class received a favorable ED decision from Ivy #1 with quite a bit of Fin Aid, promptly called Ivy #2 (which has not yet released their ED decisions and to which he applied RD) told them of his acceptance to Ivy #1 and was offered an acceptance with 100% Fin Aid.</p>
<p>I told my S that something doesn’t sound quite right, but who knows…</p>
<p>The list exists in order to comment on the desirability (or lack thereof) of applicants from a specific standpoint. It is in fact, the only leverage that ED schools have over applicants because they’re not going to waste their time and money going after miscreants and they would not want miscreants to attend them after all. But they want to limit the ability to walk away from ED commitments just because “a better deal” comes along. </p>
<p>DStark did not like my date analogy. But let me try to apply it again. When people go on a date to a dance, there is an implicit commitment that the guy will see the gal safely back home. It is not assumed that while he is at the dance, he will be looking around for someone more attractive and dump his date if he does find that someone. His date does not want to make a scene but she is free to tell everyone she knows what an unreliable, out and out cad he is. Now, obviously, a date is a one-time thing, but the mechanism is the same. I’m not using offers of marriage because I think that legally, the reneging party may be sued for breach of promise.</p>
<p>UMdad:</p>
<p>It does not sound quite right. The RD school making an offer of admission in December?
I know some actually do (one of my S’s classmates got an offer as early as October when SCEA was still in force). But to encourage an applicant to break ED?</p>
<p>Cellardweller, that is a really unhelpful, unthoughtful, and inaccurate post. </p>
<p>– No one is suggesting that a student accepted ED can hold the offer open to wait to hear from Harvard (and from Harvard and MIT financial aid) in April.</p>
<p>– No one is suggesting that a student could not be released from ED to take a meaningfully lower-cost option now on the table, or even to pursue lower-cost options reasonably available. The entire debate has been over the ethics and practicality of using that rationale to make a decision based on school preference, not cost.</p>
<p>– Harvard and MIT are not universally more generous that Penn. In some cases I have seen, quite the opposite. </p>
<p>– Pretty much every school says that it will honor other schools’ ED agreements. The interesting issue is whether they will honor it after it is terminated. I have no doubt that Harvard and MIT would close the application file for a student who had been accepted at Penn or Columbia ED and had not declined the offer within the period allowed. What they think of ED is a lot less relevant than what they think of Penn and Columbia, and of cheaters. You are welcome to take the case against them pro bono, but you may well have to pony up sanctions if you do.</p>
<p>– You cannot “drive a big truck through that door and still remain within strict ethical boundaries”. You may remain within legal boundaries, but not ethical ones. An important distinction.</p>
<p>UMDAD: I sure hope that’s not accurate. Just as a point of information, all the Ivies that use ED have already issued their early decisions. The only “early” Ivy left is Yale, which uses SCEA. So there’s a bit of a hole in the story already.</p>
<p>The only two Ivies that are allowed to make a RD offers before agreed date are UPenn and Cornell, and it’s because they have few schools that are not binded by Ivies’ agreement - Nursing(Penn), Hotel(Cornell), ILR…He could have received a likely letter, but not a full acceptance.</p>
<p>Actually, the student who got accepted in October (before the due date for EA/SCEA) was accepted at Yale. He was spectacular and no one begrudged him his early acceptance (the class actually celebrated). I gather from my S that it was a real acceptance, not a “likely.”</p>
<p>I think Marite’s date example is very relevant, but I’d add another point. I can see that the fellow on the date (her post 843) might see a girl he’d rather date. I’d have no problem with him calling the other girl and asking her for a date the very next morning. Why do I think that switch is OK? In Marite’s example there is no mention of any additional promises to the first girl other than the implied getting her home.
As it relates to the OP and the ED, the boy would be giving his promise not to ask any other girls out if girl 1 dated him. That’s why some stay single(make no promises to college) so they can date around(comparison shop colleges) before making a committment- thereby not breaking a committment.
I can see the marriage analogy (ethically) that marite mentioned. A person marries, they promise to be faithful. If they are not, then they have acted unethically. Even if spouse is a louse, they have acted unethically. They have option(ethically) to divorce and then date others. There is often a distinct difference between ethical behavior and law-breaking.</p>
<p>Re post No. 842</p>
<p>That particular stategy was not uncommon in the 1990s. I heard stories of such from that time. However, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that schools with uber competitive admissions simply say ‘good luck at the college of your choice’ and just move on to the next applicant these days.</p>
<p>Many of us agree, Lake W. that it may very well be ED college will do just that. But many here are expressing their view on the ethics of reneging on an ED because a better offer came along. Speeding in a school zone is still speeding in a school zone, even if one isn’t caught by the authorities.</p>
<p>"There is a story going around my S’s high school that a member of his class received a favorable ED decision from Ivy #1 with quite a bit of Fin Aid, promptly called Ivy #2 (which has not yet released their ED decisions and to which he applied RD) told them of his acceptance to Ivy #1 and was offered an acceptance with 100% Fin Aid.</p>
<p>I told my S that something doesn’t sound quite right, but who knows…"</p>
<p>I know some posters aren’t going to like this but if this story is true…smart kid. No wonder he is got into multiple Ivys.</p>
<p>And what does this say about the second school?</p>
<p>I shouldn’t really comment on this because it is heresay. :)</p>
<p>And so, dstark, we learn what you really think about the importance of honoring one’s commitments.</p>
<p>So, last year, UCSD sent email letters to the rejected students saying they had been admitted. THEN, they sent letters saying “oopsie daisy, you are rejected.”</p>
<p>Should they have been forced to take all those rejected students since they wrote that letter?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Heresy or hearsay?</p>
<p>I never commented on the student’s ethics, wjb.</p>
<p>Heresy. ON CC it is absolute heresy, I tell you!</p>
<p>Yes, especially if the new letters came significantly later (i.e., not the very next day).</p>
<p>If you play chess and you put your pawn down, you’re not allowed to pick it up again just because you saw a better move. My mother used to do that and it drove us nuts! But we could not send her to the corner, could we?</p>
<p>Bovertine, very, very nice. :)</p>
<p>I think this is the crux of the matter: "Pretty much every school says that it will honor other schools’ ED agreements. The interesting issue is whether they will honor it after it is terminated."</p>
<p>If the applicant has turned down ED for legitimate financial reasons, I believe that both parties have ended their contract in a satisfactory manner and the resolution would be viewed as fair and complete. Why would the student, officially released from ED by the school, still remain on any list, and why would any other school care about this former ED contract (unless it involved Columbia, which seems to have a unique policy restricting future applications to peer schools.)</p>