<p>Do we know for certain that the schools “share lists” or is that an urban myth? I really have a hard time believing, given the number of kids that want into these colleges, that it’s a business imperative to check that information? At the very least we’re talking about kids that aren’t full pay (that back out) so I’m not sure why other colleges would care. I have to believe that they don’t “go looking” for this information. Do we know this for certain?</p>
<p>A quick Google found this from Monrovian College’s website. I’m sure that one can easily find other evidence that college share names of students who were accepted ED.</p>
<p>"HOW WOULD YOU KNOW IF I APPLY EARLY DECISION AT MORE THAN ONE?</p>
<p>A. Colleges share lists of students who have been accepted under the Early Decision plan. If we find a student has been accepted under the ED plan at another college, we will rescind our offer. And, the other colleges will typically follow suit. We take very seriously the spirit of the ED plan, and students need to do that as well."
[Moravian</a> College Admission :: FAQ about Early Decision](<a href=“http://www.moravian.edu/admission/faqs/earlyDecision.htm]Moravian”>http://www.moravian.edu/admission/faqs/earlyDecision.htm)</p>
<p>Actually full pay student may try to get out sometimes. A kid from our school got in Columbia, but decided she may like Yale better instead. Our GC told her to forget about it. Our school has a policy of not sending any RD packet (not including rolling admission schools) until they know for sure a student is not admitted ED.</p>
<p>It is nothing off those schools’ back by sharing the list. Once those schools have the list their IT department could easily do a cross reference by using social security # to flag those students who are on the list. It is to their benefit to “go looking” for this information.</p>
<p>I have no beef with colleges sharing lists, I just find it interesting if they do. Most of the citations have dealt with kids applying ED to more than one school. After the ED cycle I wonder how much colleges care during the RD cycle or with their already decided EA admits and if they cross check the original ED lists. Feels improbable, but interesting. If the colleges do use this information it does add credibility to their stated positions regarding ED and I have no problem with that.</p>
<p>I do think there are students who need FA but do not want to shop around – they have a clear first choice school and are overly optimistic about the promise of “covering 100% need” and mistakenly apply ED. They should not believe the colleges which actively encourage ED applications from kids needing FA. There is a punishment attached (remaining forever on the ED list and therefore assumed to be “unethical” by peer schools) that should be stated upfront. I’m less interested in alleged unethical behavior by students than by institutions, and this is one such example.</p>
<p>Not everyone has informed GC’s. And speaking from personal experience, not all peer schools offer comparable FA, so it is entirely possible that a student released from ED might legitimately end up at a peer school, were it not for this list.</p>
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There’s too much of that disinterest in unethical student behavior. Perhaps that is why so many students cheat today? No one cares?</p>
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<p>What would be interesting to know is IF colleges like MIT check the ED lists and, if they do, when the lists are checked in the application process (before RD apps are read? after acceptances are decided but before applicants are notified?). </p>
<p>There was a quote from an early magazine article from admissions officers that seemed to suggest that the only time these institutions investigate a claim that someone has misused the ED system is when a third party brings it to their attention.</p>
<p>momofthreeboys, take any consideration or mention of the State U’s offered scholarship out of the evaluation of the ED school’s offer of FA versus the family’s financial feasibility and, I believe, you and I are on the same page. </p>
<p>Put the State U’s offered scholarship into the consideration of whether the ED school’s FA package makes the ED school feasible and we part ways. :)</p>
<p>Get the Release from the ED school on the merits of the ED school’s best financial aid package offer versus the family’s financial feasibility (without regard to 3rd party offers or potential offers), THEN, and only then can we pick up and entertain State U’s offer.</p>
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<p>Unethical student behavior grows up to be unethical adult behavior, which morphs into unethical corporate, institutional, or other entity behavior . . . .</p>
<p>ellemenope: Yes, we don’t know the details of the ED list and how it’s used by colleges. The mystery is part of the problem; everything should be upfront.</p>
<p>I do not think colleges seek to punish students who genuinely demonstrate that the finaid offer is inadequate (of course, that is open to interpretation). Colleges do not want students who don’t want to be there, or will crash financially in a year or so. </p>
<p>When a financial crisis hit, Harvard used $8 millions to bail out students who had come in as full pay but whose families got hit by the financial crisis (these were the days when Harvard had lots of money). Many other schools that were not as well off just let their students drop out. It was not a happy scene all around. But that was an unexpected scenario. If the crash and burn scenario is a likely one, given the family’s parlous finances going in, colleges would want to avoid it. They can do so by upping the finaid or releasing the applicant from the ED offer.<br>
What colleges do not want is for applicants to game the system by taking advantage of ED’s higher acceptance rate then turning around and shopping for admission at a peer institution. And since bad publicity is the only leverage they have, they will make use of it. How peer institutions handle the bad publicity is another matter entirely.
Some people look up Yelp before deciding on which business to patronize and others do not.</p>
<p>Anneroku: You may not like ED; I don’t. But how is it unethical?
The deck is stacked. Well, the deck is stacked anywhere the admit rate is 10%, or 20%, or…</p>
<p>ellemenope, I believe your last comment (that colleges don’t check unless a third party brings it up). Perhaps they should and prehaps that would give some “tooth” to schools that participate in ED. But then again, there is no motivation for the schools that don’t have ED to “check up” on students. They aren’t “checking up” on all the details of an application so why “check up” on former ED applicants. If they (former ED applicants) are free to accept an offer and are released from their agreement, then the colleges most likely presume they are “free” to do so.</p>
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You mean a third party (gasp!) snitch?</p>
<p>Maybe someone should invite the CC MIT admissions rep to this thread. The UPenn one, too (is there one?).</p>
<p>Ethics is nonsense. We live in a society where, in my opinion, almost everything is unethical. Marketing and advertising are nice words for lying. We permit the completely unethical practice of denying health coverage to those with previous medical conditions. We do not provide health care for all citizens, something that many people around the world find to be a basic ethical issue. I find capitalism itself to be completely unethical. We are in the process of invading and killing hundreds of thousands of people in countries that never attacked us or posed any threat to us. Our country has repeatedly overturned democratically elected governments all over the world.</p>
<p>So no, the ethics of student college applications hold little interest for me.</p>
<p>^^Just the threat that a list exists and the threat that colleges do check it is enough to deter most who might think to pull a fast one.</p>
<p>“Maybe someone should invite the CC MIT admissions rep to this thread. The UPenn one, too”</p>
<p>I’m confident that both MIT and UPenn are monitoring this thread. ED is an issue of interest, especially since some (unnamed, but high profile) schools have decided to eliminate it … despite the fact that ED is a highly effective tool for managing admissions.</p>
<p>Discussing what is or isn’t ethical is a slippery slope because each person’s moral compass is unique. Is it unethical to apply to more than one school ED, most would say yes. We have already demonstrated that whether or not people can turn down an ED offer is viewed differently by different people all of whom could potentially be very ethical people. Some people think it’s unethical to meddle in other people’s business and some people think it’s their moral obligation to do just that. Ethics discussion belong in the Parent Cafe me thinks.</p>
<p>Actually, I hope a whole boatload of admissions officers are reading this thread. If you discount a few snipes and swipes there has been quite abit of thoughtful, well reasoned, well researched, respectful discussion on this thread. It’s one of othe reasons I am so “hooked.” So few threads actually analyze so deeply something we all are or have grappled with.</p>
<p>Marite: I’m not saying ED is unethical. I’m saying it is unethical for colleges, like Penn, to encourage ED applications on their website from kids who need FA without mentioning the repercussions of “the list.” Penn’s website mentions the ED release for financial reasons in an effort to reassure applicants who need FA. And it’s true that they do allow for this financial out. However, I find it unethical not to mention the ED list that will blemish any future applications should a student have to make use of the release. It would be better to admit that ED is for the very wealthy or very poor, but understandably they wouldn’t want to say that.</p>
<p>someone is really bitter/(cynical??) on this thread… the racist argument was not over yet. Deja’s making generalization about “asian” parents and making speculative bashes is, imho, unethical. Only evil people think all others have the same evil intent as themselves. what a distorted perspective of the world.
I would not hope that I end up in caltech next year with a kid who is raised in such a cynical family atomsphere. I do think MIT will make the same judgment too. I wonder if you are doing this because you are afraid of your children’s positions at MIT being taken by some more qualified students?
just a reminder parents: you are all making speculations (some of which very unhealthy). the scene here reminds me of the dramas at my school…
Let the schools do their legal procedures. Some people really should do something productive other than making negative speculation and stalking…</p>