<p>
I am, too. : - )</p>
<p>It is what it is doesn’t describe how we calculate what is is. If I knew what “is” was and how it was calculated, I might be able to make an educated choice.</p>
<p>Instead I rely on 100% of my need covered, because the schools say so, and I have no idea if I am in the 50% who are covered or the 50% who aren’t. (Basing this on average Americans).Well I guess, if I live in NY, I’m probably not covered. It would really help if the schools said, “We cover 100% of a student’s need…NYers…not so fast. Except you. And SFers…probably not you either.”</p>
<p>oldfort as much fun as it is to poke fun at the financial aid system, I do agree with what you are saying. The only problem that I see is that parents and kids can be mislead by reading too much into the “we meet 100% of need.” I remember the first time I encountered that 4 years ago and I immediately wondered “what does that mean.” The cynic in me simply couldn’t believe that my kids could go to a $50,000 per year school. I think it has bearing in the ED program for new to college students and parents because they could enter into ED feeling very confident that their need will be met. Some will be very surprised. Many will be OK with the outcome either because they are paying full freight or they are not nervous with the financial burden ahead. Some will feel like they are locked into it with no escape and potentially put themselves in harmful positions and others will be saavy enough to figure out that they can walk away. It’s a very ambiguous process but I actually think the colleges/universities have left enough loopholes that most kids manage every fall to land themselves somewhere and parents manage to pay the bills. I do think that the colleges/unis that use documents other than FAFSA do have some obligation to be more relational with families if they are going to actively recruit kids that clearly cannot afford full freight while simultaneously making claims of meeting need. That has always made me squeamish.</p>
<p>dstark you are hilarious because your sarcasm hits so close to the truth it’s downright uncomfortable. Keep jabbing.</p>
<p>“It is what it is doesn’t describe how we calculate what is is. If I knew what “is” was and how it was calculated, I might be able to make an educated choice.”</p>
<p>Exactly. Why not be honest and descriptive when this is discussed in college marketing materials? “100% of need” is a meaningless phrase meant to reassure naive families and is deliberately misleading. Colleges benefit by increased application numbers, whether students can afford to enroll or not.</p>
<p>My very smart lawyer sister with household income of close to a 1 mill asked me if they should apply for FA because their monthly run rate is so high. I told her to give it a shot and let me know.</p>
<p>You sister should see my run rate :-(</p>
<p>All of our Profile schools calculated at about $6,000 more than our FAFSA EFC. So calculate up from your EFC at least that much, subtract it from your COA and that’s your “need.” All our schools met that. Did we think it was our true “need?” Haha. Obviously not. But don’t pretend you haven’t a clue as to what might be.</p>
<p>You guys! I go away for two hours to pay bills … yes college bills, if it’s any of your business … and I’m three pages behind! Well, time to catch up:</p>
<p>“You are assuming a lot about Asians.”</p>
<p>In my experience Asians are smart, hard-working, community-oriented, and tend to make the best possible use of the resources available to them. Oh sorry, I forgot I’m not supposed to stereotype.</p>
<p>“Oldfort is right. It is what it is.”</p>
<p>Amen to that. (Oh sorry, didn’t mean to offend the atheists.)</p>
<p>“There is no fair way of doing it.”</p>
<p>Yeah and I think this is a key point, because it illustrates the importance of TRYING to do it right. I think that’s the thing that makes the public so nuts about so many government decisions, where there’s absolutely NO attempt to give the system any appearance of fairness or reasonableness. We expect better of our academic institutions, populated as they are with smart and caring individuals who really are trying to do their best for all parties concerned.</p>
<p>I don’t think that “100% of need” is deliberately misleading. It’s not “100% of want” nor “100% of cost.” Again, “need” is subject to discussion with finaid officer. And if the two sides cannot come to an agreement, the admitted student is released from ED.</p>
<p>It’s 100% of the need that the SCHOOL calculates based on whatever formula they use. Schools that meet this type of need typically use tons of information and the formulas vary by school. What one school says is your “need” might not equal what another school says is your “need”. Therefore your finaid may not be the same from school to school.</p>
<p>And most definitely, it’s not 100% of what you feel like your family can pay. These schools have a formula they use to compute need based aid. Sometimes what they think you can pay and what you think you can pay do not align. HOWEVER if the school meets what THEY calculate as your need…they have met your need.</p>
<p>Remember…these very generous schools are doling out THEIR money. They can do so any way they please, using any formula they want to use…and using any information they feel will help them (thus the variance in what is required…optional questions on the Profile, tax returns for multiple years sometimes, etc). </p>
<p>It’s the way it is.</p>
<p>Look…I’m not a fan of ED for a variety of reasons. BUT I do believe that when a student makes that ED application, they should be prepared to attend if the school offers them a spot.</p>
<p>Otherwise…why not have EVERYONE just apply ED and then if a better offer comes along…or the student’s family doesn’t feel the aid is enough…just back out. Sorry…I’m not sure that is what ED is all about.</p>
<p>To quote an often referenced source:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[Making</a> Your Decision After the Colleges Make Theirs: Application Accepted](<a href=“http://www.education.com/reference/article/decision-college-application-accept/]Making”>Education.com | #1 Educational Site for Pre-K to 8th Grade)</p>
<p>Any other interpretation of need is nonsense.</p>
<p>momofthreeboys, thanks.</p>
<p>“My experience was, even with a completely straightforward, uncomplicated financial situation, FA offers varied between schools by over 10k/year.”</p>
<p>Anneroku, that looks like a pretty big difference to me.</p>
<p>cellardweller, nice link.</p>
<p>CW: Yeah but we’re talking , I think, about kids who actually want to attend a college. :)</p>
<p>Well…my dad goes to school. He’s 82.</p>
<p>No financial aid though. :)</p>
<p>My daughter “needs” a Wii for Christmas. However, I think anyone would agree, including a college financial aid officer, that, instead, she just “wants” a Wii. What a family subjectively thinks it “needs” in financial aid cannot possibly be a “fair” test. The “need” has to be an objectively “demonstrated” need, as most colleges say, and colleges are the objective judge of any “demonstrated need”.</p>
<p>No colleges completely fill their classes with ED students. Few even fill their classes to 50% with ED students. As was explained to us by GC’s in January of my D’s 11th grade, and as explained everywhere you want to look if you make any effort whatsoever (there are plenty of books at Barnes & Noble), if financial aid is a concern, don’t apply ED but instead apply RD and wait for all college offers so that they can be compared for the “best deal”.</p>
<p>Hard to believe that UPenn’s and MIT’s admissions personnel have the time to read this nutty thread at this busy time in their admissions process and with so little time to get work done before winter break, especially since this whole debate about ED and FinAid has been going on for years and spurred Harvard to completely terminate its ED option, to much publicity, a few years ago. But dream on.</p>
<p>Nobody needs a Wii.</p>
<p>And there is no such thing as objective need either.</p>
<p>My D does.</p>
<p>ANd as I said about 200 posts ago, FinAid is charity by the college. Students are not “entitled” to anything. Oliver “Please sir, I’d like some more”.</p>
<p>That is one need I think the colleges don’t have to cover. Or private elementary schools either.</p>
<p>Dstark aren’t endowments tax exempt? Do colleges pay property taxes? I can’t recall.</p>
<p>Don’t parent’s and students actually subsidize the high cost of the tuition bubble by taking out loans to pay? Hmmmmm. Just curious. I’m wondering, when a college includes a loan in a FA package and says, “We are meeting your needs,” isn’t it possible they are meeting THEIR own needs?</p>
<p>Frankly, the ONLY way colleges will maintain a tax exempt status in the US, at this point in time, is if they are admitting financially challenged candidates. Trust me…with the current climate, any institution which is not serving the needs of the less than full pay is at risk. So, really, this is not quite the ‘charity’ you are making it out to be. Further, most of the money they are 'charitably" giving is money they have been charitably given, btw. FWIW.</p>
<p>What is ridiculous is to say, Students should understand not to apply ED if they can’t afford the college when the literature of the college says students SHOULD apply regardless of “need.” What is ridiculous is the onus being put on the less than wealthy student. How about, no harm no foul. You told me you would meet my full need…“contract”…I said I would come there if admitted if you met my full need. Need not met. End of story.</p>
<p>Why is this the ethics all about the student? But finaid “is what it is?” I really don’t understand that position. At all.</p>