<p>So, basically, colleges are overbudgeted? I wonder how that happened or where most of the costs come from…that’s interesting. Since we were never going to be finaid candidates I never much thought about these things until last spring when I saw all those disappointed kids who couldn’t afford thier schools or kids who were about to cliff dive into a hundred thousand dollars of debt for a teaching degree. But, now, I find it really fascinating.</p>
<p>I really do wonder where they spend the money and why they spend that much more than they take in and how long they can run this kind of financial model…pretty interesting.</p>
<p>It would be very easy for this (or the earlier mentioned $6k gap) gap to make perfect sense … for example, there is income from a non-custodial parent, or from the non-custodial parent’s new spouse, or assets the CSS profile considers that the FAFSA does not, or a bunch of other causes.</p>
<p>I have called you out for making unwarranted comments on posters’ ethics without a single shred of evidence about anything, including, by inference, my own. If you believe that this kind of comments are unethical, be my guest.</p>
<p>Wait! INCOME FROM NON-CUSTODIAL PARENT’S NEW SPOUSE??? what on earth does that have to do with college costs? wow. game. set. match. css people.</p>
<p>You call me out all you want.
People have accused me of being unethical in this thread. You better believe I am suspicious of them. I didn’t say they were unethical. But I’m suspicious.</p>
<p>It could be the complicating factor in Calmom’s situation is the non-custodial parent. I remember the case of a heartbroken poster whose D was admitted to BC but whose divorced absentee father refused to contribute a single dime to her education. BC took the line that it was holding parents to their responsibilities by insisting that the father contribute. The upshot was that the poor girl had to decline BC.
I do think this is something that not every applicant can possibly be aware of beforehand. But I would think that disagreement over how much a non-custodial parent is willing to pay would be ground for being released.</p>
<p>As I posted before, I think that they they are NOT meeting “need” unless they are meeting the FASFSA EFC. The FAFSA EFC may or may not be adequate to meet a particular family’s situational needs, but it is a clear number that is calculated by a transparent and readily available, consistent formula; it is a number that is given to families in clear figures as soon as they submit the FAFSA; and it is a number that is the same for all colleges. </p>
<p>In other words, FAFSA EFC provides a neutral standard for ascertaining need.</p>
<p>Well first off lets start with some personal responsibility. The student and parents should be researching how much they can afford before applying anywhere. And please don’t come back with how it is so confusing. A student who has the ability to be accepted at an ivy league school is smart enough to do the research</p>
<p>Second, a school’s GC can help in this process if asked. And college’s financial aid offices are more than happy to provide guidance when requested</p>
<p>Third - there are other counselors / resources out there people can tap if need be. Plenty of places offer FA calculators. Go on the FAFSA site and see what your results are. If it vastly differs from what you think you can pay, then you have a problem and are deluding yourself that some school is going to meet your idea of what you can pay when the calculator notes you can pay a whole lot more. Yes, there are unique circumstances but that is why you discuss them with the FA office</p>
<p>As to what does covering 100% of financial need mean at Penn? - It means Penn covers 100% of need based on common standard formulas and factors for a typical American, adjusted for Penn’s own circumstances (which results in greater aid than the standard formulas) . It doesn’t mean whatever wild number an applicant decides is their need</p>
<p>dstark-- I know you’re an ethical man who truly believes that it is unethical to put families and kids in situations and debts they do not understand, because I know you understand from your work that this is exactly what just happened in our economic collapse and your concern is that these kids not be put in untenable and financially impossible sets of circumstances. Others might not realize this is one of your driving ethics…but I do. I think sometimes people just find themselves talking at cross-purposes with differing sets of priorities, but everyone is being ethical.</p>
<p>oh please get off your high horse. First off, given some of what you and others have posted here, I think you can throw that highly intelligent moniker out the window. Second - if you read my post, you will see I said they laughed loudly because they can not believe people here are trying to parse words from Penn’s website and try to assign their own meaning to them. They point out a website is not a be all and end all and those giving so much weight to it are crazy.</p>
<p>“It means Penn covers 100% of need based on common standard formulas and factors, adjusted for Penn’s own circumstances (which results in greater aid than the standard formulas)”</p>
<p>Is this a fact? Penn is more generous than FAFSA? For everybody?</p>
<p>Yes. But the point is, it is not unethical for the applicant to take a position in negotiations that the college doesn’t agree with, and the applicant has the right to consider any information that they happen to have on hand – including learning that another, different college will cost significantly less to attend.</p>
<p>“First off, given some of what you and others have poster here, I think you can throw that highly intelligent moniker out the window…They point out a website is not a be all and end all and those giving so much weight to it are crazy…” Well, then I suppose the Penn and MIT people you hope are monitoring this thread and who have joined CC are “crazy.” Wow. Just wow.</p>
<p>No, ordinarily, colleges are not overbudgeted. They rely on endowment income for much or part of their operations. That has been the trouble with universities such as Harvard in this economic downturn, because it is the endowment that has taken a hit. I believe that Harvard and Princeton (unsurprisingly the two most generous universities) rely for half of their annual operations on endowment income. Many others rely for far less. And less well endowed universities rely more on tuition income. These are typically far less generous with finaid (think Sarah Lawrence which is actually more expensive than Harvard).
I was told some time ago that Harvard’s decision to expand its financial aid package to families making up to $180k basically meant that it forwent tuition income as a source of operating income. In fact, if it went back on that decision, a significant part of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences’ deficit could be wiped out, but the Harvard Corporation is deeply committed to it and won’t go back on it.</p>
<p>So, basically, the money which comes from the endowment, which is developed through the investment of charitable giving and fundraising, is the money which covers the cost of finaid or the subsidizing of full-pay students. Okay. So, it must be pretty rough now. Thanks.</p>
<p>Very well said Thumper. The only thing I would add is many schools use the same tools / formulas. Some of the top end ones do not. And people often confuse need based awards and merit awards. This is one reason why a FA package may differ from school to school.</p>