<p>I think the college would have prove/explain some harm, just as an ED candidate will need to prove/explain why it would be harmful to the family not to accept the offer. For example, a kid applied ED, the school determines the cost. They assume that the family can get a home equity loan because they have equity in order to cover their costs. The family cannot get a home equity loan or the family can, but does not have the cash flow to make the required monthly payments. There is potential “harm” to that family and they should legitimately be able to back out before making the commitment with a deposit and whatever the college requires to be signed. Your scenario theoretically could happen, probably not, but theoretically. But in my opinion to make it withstand the legal smell test the college would have to be able to prove harm by each individual. I’m not a lawyer so I will be interested in any expert responses. Colleges do rescind students whose grades fall, that happens every year so your scenario does occur but not for a drop from an A to a B. I don’t recall anecdotally if there have been any reports of ED candidates being rescinded. Athletic agreements vary depending on what NCAA division so again uncertain, but I could see a scholarship attached to athletic performance being rescinded, but a scholarship that is not directly attached to athletic performance I don’t think could be legally rescinded. Again, it’s not improbable that an athlete gets admitted and is committed to playing a sport, gets hurt senior year in HS and can’t “perform” at the college at which they were admitted. How that is handled legally I have no knowledge. But in general yes, I do believe that the eventual agreements between a familly and a college cut both ways. There are at the point of agreement obligations of the student, obligations of the family and obligations of the college. I would guess there are a small number of instances where the agreement is broken after commitment. For example a student who has to withdraw is such an example (either for health, familial or monetary reasons.) I would guess there are instances where college rescind offers (grade failures, legal offenses by the student, and the such.) I’m sure most are amicably resolved although the potential for litigation is always possible by either the student, the family or he school.</p>
<p>And for the poster who took what the OP said “on her word” – well, which word(s)?</p>
<p>There have been student posters on CC whose integrity, character, and sheer “goodness” shine through. These include posters who are gracious despite difficult personal circumstances. </p>
<p>But the OP? She changed her story several times. Differing descriptions of the finaid package, different numbers of college applications. And remember her lovely words to describe her high school – “crappy” and “full of minorities and poors.” You draw your own conclusions on what kind of a person writes what she did.</p>
<p>Deja that’s silly. I would never rush over anywhere, down the street or to another forum and tell someone else what to do. The kids know how to use the PM button if they want advice or they will post (like the OP did). At the very least their parents will work it through either by figuring how how to pay the tab or calling the college. That’s the more likely scenario. There’s been no big gigantic “secrets” shared on this thread.</p>
<p>Having now read the 12 pages that were posted since I posted last night…</p>
<p>calmom - Re: Post #953 - I said that the OP posted on the MIT Board about transferring from Penn to MIT because she did (it is now removed). She also posted on the Penn Board about how to transfer from Penn SEAS to Penn M&T (now also removed), but that was a different post. Re: Post #1032 - You assume that OP wants to go to Penn, but Penn did not meet her financial needs. I assume (based on her own statements and the inferences drawn therefrom) that OP wants to go to MIT. IMHO, that is not an ethical reason to decline (or seek a release from) Penn’s ED.</p>
<p>I read it poetgrl. Thank you. Perhaps posters who are pointing fingers at the “ethics police” posting here should read it also. Pretty distasteful.</p>
<p>Colleges can and do rescind admissions for students, including ED students, for all types of reasons. They need to state their reason when they do so, but they don’t have to justify or “prove” anything. They just cite the reason.</p>
<p>But the bottom line is that when they do rescind an admission, its because in some way the student has turned out not to be what they expected/wanted. The A student ended up with D’s, the student dropped all their AP classes, the student got caught cheating – or whatever. The point is that the college makes its ED decisions based on its internalized expectations that the student has a certain set of qualities and if it turns out that they were mistaken - they rescind.</p>
<p>Which is exactly what happens when an ED student applies to a 100% need school thinking that they will get a stronger financial aid package than the one that is offered. The student applies ED believing that the cost of attendance will be affordable to them; and the student finds out upon admission that the school is not offering the amount of financial support that they anticipated when they applied. </p>
<p>One more thing: colleges will not allow students to register in classes unless their accounts are in good standing. That means all amounts due must be paid before the start of school, or else the family must be enrolled in some sort of payment plan offered by the school. So the bottom line is that if a student accepts ED, but fails to make the required deposit-- that student is not going to be enrolled. That’s why it’s really silly for colleges to try to “enforce” a supposed obligation that entails the payment of thousands of dollars – if the student doesn’t have the money, the student isn’t going to be attending. Again – you cannot legally force anyone to borrow money.</p>
<p>Isn’t amazing that after more than 1100 posts we are none the wiser? Of course, we could blame all the irrelevant drivel that was included by self anointed “experts” and the utter lack of attention to the few known facts. </p>
<p>At the end, is it possible to define a reasonable answer to the simple question regarding the ability of the OP to be released of her ED commitment to Penn by declining their offer by January 1, and thus be allowed to attend her state school on a full ride? </p>
<p>Or should we continue to find answers to the hypothetical scenarios of keeping Penn “alive” as decisions from a number of schools are on their way?</p>
<p>Supposedly the TOS says this (below), yet posts were deleted at the OP’s request. </p>
<p><<
Can My Posts Be Deleted?
Posts are editable for a brief period following posting to allow correction of spelling errors, formatting, etc. After that, members may not edit their own posts. This prevents one member from editing an earlier post in a thread, rendering comments by others irrelevant or seemingly inaccurate. Similarly, we cannot delete posts upon request. Doing so would destroy the integrity of our archive and consume a huge amount of manpower. Therefore, please do not post personal data or other information that could prove to be a problem later. >></p>
<p>Xiggi, why are we not the wiser? We learned other posters viewpoints. We read about other people’s experiences.</p>
<p>“Or should we continue to find answers to the hypothetical scenarios of keeping Penn “alive” as decisions from a number of schools are on their way?”</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>There is a deadline.</p>
<p>Xiggi, DStark answered the question in post #16, but people might not have followed the link:</p>
<p>[Penn</a> Admissions: Applying Early Decision](<a href=“http://www.admissions.upenn.edu/applying/early.php]Penn”>http://www.admissions.upenn.edu/applying/early.php)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>(emphasis added)</p>
<p>Deja, over the years the moderators have removed any number of posts of parents and children where the poster had given enough information to make the young person relatively easy to identify. I think this is a wise policy in this day and age especially with young people. They will also remove offensive posts and prevent those that can’t abide by the rules from posting. Some of this housekeeping is common sense.</p>
<p>Personally, I have learned a lot from this thread, and been forced to re-examine and to sharpen a lot of my thinking. I think it’s a good thread as far as that goes. </p>
<p>It’s not the best thread ever if you go by the ratio of amount learned to number of posts, though. And I am really dismayed at the frequency with which posters are questioning each other’s moral integrity here. With the possible exception of the OP (who was scared away long ago, and rightly so), I don’t think anyone participating in this discussion has a basis for questioning anyone else’s integrity. There are real disagreements here about what is right and good, but no one has been arguing that it’s OK to be wrong.</p>
<p>“Further, if any Regular Decision applicant to the University of Pennsylvania is accepted Early Decision under a College Board approved Early Decision plan by any other school, the application to the University of Pennsylvania will be withdrawn.”</p>
<p>So I wonder if MIT has this same stipulation, meaning if the OP RD to MIT and MIT finds out that the applicant got accepted ED to Penn, would that give MIT the right to withdraw the applicants RD application to their university???</p>
<p>“Further, if any Regular Decision applicant to the University of Pennsylvania is accepted Early Decision under a College Board approved Early Decision plan by any other school, the application to the University of Pennsylvania will be withdrawn.”</p>
<p>What is the definition of accepted? The acceptance letter comes, or the acceptance-letter-plus-FA-package is agreed to? In other words, whose act – the school’s or the students – constitutes “acceptance”?</p>
<p>This forum has enough deadbeats to open a sub-forum. Threads can be along the lines of:</p>
<ol>
<li>ED grant aid sucks. Help me write a letter to dump those losers</li>
<li>How to pay by credit card and then file BK – college for free !!</li>
<li>If I lie on the FAFSA, will I get caught ?</li>
</ol>
<p>… …</p>
<p>re post #1135 I think most would agree that if an acceptance letter is sent out to the applicant. That is generally what accepted means.</p>
<p>I have requested that the mods remove posts I’ve made before, either because I had second thoughts about something that could be identifying, or because I used my kids’ computer and posted not realizing one of them was still logged in (and his cover would have been totally blown).</p>
<p>Discretion and judgment are appropriate for posters and mods alike.</p>
<p>What is the definition of accepted? The acceptance letter comes, or the acceptance-letter…post #1135</p>
<p>Pizzagirl–really good question.</p>
<p>FAFSA is used by 99.9% of the colleges in the US. CSS/Profile is used by a few hundred. Of those that use Profile, the vast majority are private colleges. If you want to know exactly what your EFC will be for college apply only to schools that use FAFSA and do NOT require Profile (or some other institutional methodology).</p>
<p>FAFSA has some real advantages under certain circumstances. Your home, regardless of value net of debt is excluded. You can own a multi-million dollar home and it doesn’t count. Your retirement accounts are not included. You can have millions in retirement and it is not a factor. You can own a Rolls Royce and it is not a factor. If there is a non-custodial parent who makes millions, its not a problem. You just can’t earn too much money ($40,000 AGI?). And you can’t have investments, other than retirement.</p>
<p>As calmom pointed out through her personal example, schools that use Profile can come up with widely differing FA offers even if they claim to meet 100% of need. And I would guess that only about 50 schools claim to be both “need blind” and meet “100% of need”. Profile can be better than FAFSA if you have unusual circumstances <em>and</em> the school will consider those circumstances. I recall that Northwestern said that they would consider support of a relative as a legitimate expense. Profile schools seem to generally consider job loss, expensive medical treatment and other similar issues as legitimate expenses that can adjust your EFC. FAFSA does not.</p>
<p>The OP’s posts did not contain personally identifying information (name, address, high school name, telephone numbers).</p>