<p>“It’s also wrong, since she’s right”</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>dstark, is that you smiling, or do you think that the colleges are smiling? Yes, many parents do think that 100% of their need will be met, and many think that their darlings will also get merit scholarships at Ivy schools.</p>
<p>I was referring to post 1178 :)</p>
<p>EricLG,
We are talking about undergrad admissions. This has been discussed many times. Penn specifically mentions release from ED for financial reasons:
“If you are admitted to Penn under the Early Decision Plan, you are bound to accept the offer of Admission, except in cases where the financial issues cannot be resolved.”
[url=<a href=“http://upenn.intelliresponse.com/srfs/index.jsp]askBEN[/url”>http://upenn.intelliresponse.com/srfs/index.jsp]askBEN[/url</a>]
(Search “Early Decision Policy”)</p>
<p>vossron,
Fascinating article and highly relevant!</p>
<p>Northeastmom, I’m smiling because I was told that 40+ year-olds should have a clue. Yet, it seems professionals have been giving out wrong information.</p>
<p>The schools probably are smiling. I’m not smiling for the schools.</p>
<p>anneroku</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There is NOTHING misleading about terms such as 100% of need. It is your and others who assign their own interpretation of exactly what that means where the problem arises.</p>
<p>Since dstark likes to quote from the Penn website - lets go there - my emhasis added in bold:</p>
<p>Need-Based Financial Aid<br>
Prospective Undergraduate Students </p>
<p>The Universitys need-blind admissions policy ensures that no U.S. citizen or permanent resident is denied admission because he or she requires financial assistance. Penn will meet 100% of a students demonstrated financial need.</p>
<p>Who is eligible? </p>
<p>There is no arbitrary income cut-off for financial aid eligibility. Because each family situation is different and financial aid eligibility is determined by many factors, we encourage you to apply if you are concerned about your ability to pay.</p>
<p>How is financial need determined? </p>
<p>Financial aid at Penn is awarded on the basis of financial need as determined by Student Financial Services. Financial need is the difference between Penns Educational Expense Budget and the amount your family is expected to contribute:</p>
<p>Financial need is determined based on information provided on financial aid applications and parent and student tax returns and W-2 forms. The following items are also considered in determining financial need:</p>
<p>family size
student income and assets
parents income and assets
the number of children enrolled in college
extraordinary family circumstances </p>
<p>**Penn does not rely on the federally-calculated family contribution. Instead, Penn reviews all aid applications on an individual basis in order to allocate available aid resources as equitably as possible. In many instances, Penn expects a lower parent contribution than the one determined by the federal formula. Financial information from both parents, even if they are divorced or separated, is used to determine financial need. **</p>
<p>SO - What does this tell us. Need is determined by the college - not by you, not by your student, but by the college. And the colleges are very upfront about this. I do not understand why some people have a hard time grasping this concept they they themselves do not get to determine need - and that colleges are not misleading anyone when they say they fund 100% of need - because it is need as defined by the colleges formula - not yours</p>
<p>fireandrain, I also have found this thread very interesting. I had no idea that there was a clause in the ED agreement that included a release for financial reasons, which slightly changes my previous view that ED was sleazy. And I have no dog in this race! Both my kids are in college and we never considered ED for any school, so it’s all theoretical for me, but still fascinating. </p>
<p>I also agree with your defense of Calmom, who has had plenty of experience with FA over many years and shares it in a very clear and helpful manner.</p>
<p>dstrak - if you accept #14</p>
<ol>
<li>If I apply Early Decision, do I have less leverage concerning my financial aid?</li>
</ol>
<p>ANSWER: Penn will meet 100% of demonstrated need for those admitted Early Decision and Regular Decision. Some students will apply Regular Decision so that they can weigh financial aid packages from all the schools to which they have been admitted. For more information on financial aid, contact the Student Financial Services Office. </p>
<p>then you are basically refuting your own argument. Because #14 basically says - if you want to shop around for the best offer, apply RD.</p>
<p>I have no problem with that post either, berryberry. Or any of the other posts that Penn posts on its website. </p>
<p>Do you?</p>
<p>Please take this to the GCs at your school. Maybe, they would enjoy another laugh. </p>
<p>Who is giving families financial advice at your school? What are their credentials and experiences?
Who is telling students that they shouldn’t take free rides over ED acceptances?</p>
<p>I’m curious how some private prep schools work.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, [url=<a href=“http://upenn.intelliresponse.com/srfs/index.jsp]askBEN[/url”>http://upenn.intelliresponse.com/srfs/index.jsp]askBEN[/url</a>] says (some, like berryberry61, don’t seem to believe it):
</p>
<p>What might “resolved” mean?</p>
<p>Dstark, you are using my words to defend your position – but I’m not sure I do agree with you.</p>
<p>While I know plenty of adults who were misinformed, whose fault is that? There is absolutely no reason why these parents didn’t do the research that they should have. This is one area where I confess I don’t know what the right answer is. I don’t think colleges are all evil, I do think many of the top schools try hard to give aid to the needy and to have a diverse student body. To some degree it is the responsibility of the parents to do research, and if they decide not to – shouldn’t they accept the consequences? </p>
<p>One kid we knew, only child, applied ED to Penn. Parents make a nice income, but have lots of debt and no assets. They knew NOTHING about financial aid – I was astonished at both their ignorance and lack of desire to become knowledgeable. As heartbroken as the kids was to be deferred ED from Penn, it was probably for the best. Because they love and spoil their kid, the parents would have taken out $100,000 in loans to cover the tuition.</p>
<p>Frankly, the biggest issue I have are with schools who say they have financial aid but don’t meet 100% of need, but spend a lot of money on merit aid. But that’s another issue.</p>
<p>anneroku</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Are you that obtuse that you are going to tell us you know more than professionals in the field in this area? That really can’t be what you are saying, is it. The GC’s here are not interpreting things more stringently - nor are they enforcing the rules just to curry favor with top colleges. They are doing so because it is the moral, ethical and right thing to do. We teach our students strong morals and ethics - and we would never set a poor example like you and others advocate by ignoring the rules of a program and agreements all parties signed</p>
<p>AnneRoku, the ‘askBen’ answer you pointed to says this
Loans are an acceptable resolution in the eyes of the college, for the 1000000000000th time.</p>
<p>And actually yes to the previous poster, if a no-loan school expected me to take out loans either implicity or overtly we would not sign the agreement or make the deposit to seal the deal for ED and not feel unethical doing so based on Penn’s own language for undergraduates. Loans are not financial aid and no-loan mean exactly that to me “no-loans.” To new posters please read the entire thread as a courtesy before you post as we seem to be to the point of going back to the same posts, the same comments, the same questions, many of which have been answered and supported.</p>
<p>“I do not understand why some people have a hard time grasping this concept they they themselves do not get to determine need”</p>
<p>Families get to determine if they will accept the college-determined need. It’s part of “resolved” at AskBen.</p>
<h1>14 does not refute what I am saying.</h1>
<p>“you are bound to accept the offer of Admission, except in cases where the financial issues cannot be resolved.”</p>
<p>Well, it is clearly within the parameters of the process for the colleges to determine what they believe your need to be.</p>
<p>In the end, however, it will always be up to the family to determine what they are actually able to pay.</p>
<p>Nobody can force anyone to enroll in a college they cannot pay for.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>When her facts are wrong, wrong, wrong - it certainly is appropriate to point this out. I really do not care how long she has been posting - when she posts incorrect information, people need to call her on it</p>
<p>Don’t get the double standard–calmom calls other posters wrong all the time.
Btw, I should add that I got most of my info about ED from reading CC. I never read anything other than that if the FA package comes anywhere near to what you can afford, you are obligated to attend; that if you are in need of aid you should apply RD; and that most people who apply ED are already full-payers.
Apparently that wisdom is now rendered naive, and sanctimonious by this particular thread’s so-called experts.
My point being: take everything you read here with a grain of salt–do your own research.
If I had it to do over again, I would read each school’s ED info with a fine tooth comb. Yet even then, one’s interpretation might be wrong so one might even want to hire a lawyer to read over the “binding” agreement. That’s the lesson learned for me from this thread.</p>
<p>“Loans are not financial aid and no-loan mean exactly that to me “no-loans.””</p>
<p>Loans arranged by a school without parent participation, in the name of the student, and available to every student (usually at a max of around $5K per year) are routinely considered part of financial aid.</p>