<p>Nope, Penn has not historically published its CDS. I read recently on cc that they have started to release it, but I have not found it anywhere (but didn’t look too hard either). I just think its just too much of a coincidence that Pton stops producing it CDS when it dropped ED. But yeah, a true cynic at heart – probably as a result of a biostat minor.</p>
<p>btw: I realize that this discussion is about Penn, but I should alert the parents out there that George Washington will not only share their methodology, they will provide you (if asked) with a workbook to calculate the EFC yourself. (Of course, the workbook is about as much fun as your 1040, but the point is that it works.)</p>
<p>So based on those stats, about a third of GW admitted students are offered awards that are substantially short of meeting their need. (If the average percent of need met is 92%, and roughly 68% get full need met, then the remaining 32% would be getting a lot less than 92%).</p>
<p>Anyway – my point is simply that they are to be commended for disclosing their formula, but since they don’t promise to meet it for any given student, it’s not much help in terms of predicting aid.</p>
<p>good point about not meeting 100% of need, calmom, but CB’s data appears incorrect. According to GW’s CDS, they offered a need-based package to 95% of those who were determined to have need (965/1017). Of those that had need, 94% had their full need met. Of course, if an applicant is in that first 5% and/or the second 6%…</p>
<p>“there IS no “nationally standardized need analysis formula” called “Institutional Methodology (IM)”. So that college is starting right off the bat with a false statement.”</p>
<p>I suppose you can say that a menu that has various options is “standardized” – that is, overall menu at Denny’s is “standardized”, but if I go in and order the grilled chicken and you go in and order the prime rib – then we are going to get very different meals. </p>
<p>College Board offers college a system of calculation that allows them to choose to treat different types of assets, income, and expenses differently, depending on their own internal policies. Most colleges do not reveal which options they have chosen, certainly not in a way that is transparent to consumers.</p>
<p>“I suppose you can say that a menu that has various options is “standardized””</p>
<p>There would seem to be some interpretation involved in the strong statement “So that college is starting right off the bat with a false statement.” ;)</p>
<p>The college is suggesting that its financial aid package will be the same as competing peer institutions, implying that they all use the same, identical, “nationally standardized” formula.
The implication to the ED-applicant would be that there is no particular value in comparing packages – but the reality is quite different. </p>
<p>Here’s a quick list of some questions the savvy ED applicant would have to ask, just looking at the chart I referenced in post #1625:</p>
<p>*Is there an offset for sibling’s private school tuition?
*Does the college adjust income and asset protection allowances for regional cost of living variances?
*Does the college require noncustodial parent information?
*In considering the assets and income of divorced parents, does the college look only to the biological parents or also consider step-parent income and assets?<br>
*At what rate are student assets assessed? (25%? 5%? )
*How is the home valuation for home equity determined?
*Is home equity capped, and if so, how?
*How is equity in a farm or business determined?</p>
<p>That doesn’t even begin to touch the reality of what happens to people with income from self-employment – because the colleges ask for their tax schedule C’s and business & farm statements, and recalculate their income. So whatever they think their AGI might be will turn into something else once the financial aid people have gotten done figuring out what they want it to be instead.</p>
<p>calmom, thanks, I didn’t know about the options. It sounds like schools choosing the same options get the same answer. I just bristled a bit when you said the school was lying; sorry! I guess I have a higher opinion of school financial aid people (probably because we benefit!). :)</p>
<p>And colleges choosing different options get different answers. If there are half a dozen different options, then I think mathematically there would be hundreds of different possible combinations – and I there is much more variance than that built into the formulas.</p>
<p>We submitted the same financial info to 6 colleges when my daughter was a HS Senior. They all came back within $250 of each other, except one which had a $3K EFC higher than the others. Of course, it was the school she wanted to go to the most. We visited them and showed them the other schools’ letters, and they promptly adjusted their package. The reason they stated for the revised amount was “high state taxes.” Hmm. Didn’t they notice the taxes earlier? Plus, our state has a 6% tax rate. Is it really that high? Anyway, I didn’t debate it with them. I figured they had to come up with a reason to make the adjustment, and that’s the one they chose. </p>
<p>To another point in this discussion … even though the school met 100% of our need according to their calculations, we still paid (and are paying) a hefty amount, more than our fiscally conservative selves ever thought we would, especially now that one of us has been unemployed for 9 months. Daughter could have had a free ride at another school or highly reduced bills at the state university. Should we have gone that route and stayed within our financial comfort zone? I wonder. But then I remember the reasons why she selected the school she did, and I have to trust the original decision process which was carefully made. </p>
<p>Morale of the story: Jointly make the best decision you can, all things considered, including family finances, and clearly know the reasons behind the decision. It might need to be reaffirmed several times throughout the 4 years as roadblocks arise – academic, social, or financial. All of my kids at some point wondered if they made the right choice, and having clear reasons in mind helped them differentiate between the fundamental changes that are deal-breakers and need to be addressed, or momentary challenges that are able to be overcome. Same process applies to us parents, too. </p>
<p>“I figured they had to come up with a reason to make the adjustment, and that’s the one they chose.”</p>
<p>I think this is correct. Our daughter received FA that varied by over $10k/yr. from peer colleges that promised to meet 100% of need, so it’s clear that the methodology is far from standard. I believe there is a lot of leeway in determining aid, and that colleges use higher FA awards to attract the students they want most.</p>
<p>Top answer your question - they apparently have nothing to hide. :)</p>
<p>In the future when looking for a Colleges Common Data Set - just go to the Colleges web site and use the Web sites search function to find CDS or Common Data Set.
That’s all I did to find the latest Princeton CDS</p>
<p>Still can’t find a Common Date Set published at the University Of Pennsylvania web site :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Richetc. some college/unis post CDS some don’t. Sometimes you can find it by searching the college/uni website for Institutional Research and you can find it there. Good luck.</p>
<p>In which case, I’d say “thank heaven for the inconsistency!” I would venture to say that if the ‘consistent’ awards were at the high end of these varying awards, we’d be quite happy. But if they were all consistent at the low end, we would not be so anxious to do away with the opportunities that the various college-specific methodologies generate.</p>
<p>But the point is that it is very hard for a family to know where they stand with an ED application. Its quite possible for the online calculators to spit out one number and for the actual award to be many thousands of dollars short of what the applicant thought was likely.</p>
<p>Back in 1991 the Justice Dept brought a suit that required Colleges to compete for students.
They are prohibited from sharing too much information, to do so would be an Anti-Trust Violation.
<p>Thank the Justice Department for the wide disparity in aid packages
The colleges have to compete for the students to avoid violating Anti Trust Laws.</p>
<p>I don’t think an Anti Trust Exemption - like Major League Baseball - would be the answer.
Then the students would be totally at the mercy of the College Admissions Departments as they set up the “College Student Admissions Draft”</p>
<p>On the other hand maybe that would work. Just one Application - list the colleges you want to have consider you and the various admissions officers would sift through them to assemble the classes they want.
Efficiency at the cost of eliminating choice for the Student.</p>