<p>Yes, honors programs are amazing. They offer a place to be surrounded by other intelligent, ambitious, and hard-working students for a very minimal price.</p>
<p>H.,
What did you major in, if you don’t mind my asking?
(I’m a little touchy myself about personal details).</p>
<p>
Yes, but such students are relatively few and far between. Despite UGA’s large size and honors program, fewer of its students make it into top law schools. Since you specifically mentioned those schools, let’s use them to compare.</p>
<p>As you can see, UGA compares poorly against smaller schools. More telling, it doesn’t even fare particularly well just using its Honors college (2500 undergrads). Even more depressing, UGA seems to be one of the more successful so-called “lesser schools.”</p>
<p>Yale Law 2004
Harvard 78 (6700 undergrads)
Yale 86 (5300)
Princeton 28 (4900)
Stanford 34 (6800)
Amherst 9 (1600)
Williams 15 (2000)</p>
<p>UGA 2 (25000)</p>
<p>Yale Law 2005
Harvard 94
Yale 85
Princeton 29
Stanford 40
Amherst 9
Williams 14 </p>
<p>UGA 3</p>
<p>Yale Law 2006
Harvard 89
Yale 86
Princeton 34
Stanford 42
Amherst 9
Williams 12</p>
<p>UGA 4</p>
<p>Yale Law 2007
Harvard 79
Yale 78
Princeton 31
Stanford 37
Amherst 9
Williams 12</p>
<p>UGA 4</p>
<p>Yale Law 2009
Harvard 66
Yale 82
Princeton 24
Stanford 33
Amherst 9
Williams 11</p>
<p>UGA 4</p>
<p>Harvard Law 2004
Harvard 214
Yale 100
Princeton 68
Stanford 71
Amherst 13
Williams 15</p>
<p>UGA 7</p>
<p>Harvard Law 2005
Harvard 238
Yale 109
Princeton 72
Stanford 90
Amherst 15
Williams 16</p>
<p>UGA 8</p>
<p>Harvard Law 2006
Harvard 232
Yale 126
Princeton 65
Stanford 91
Amherst 16
Williams 13</p>
<p>UGA 7</p>
<p>Harvard Law 2007
Harvard 241
Yale 113
Princeton 54
Stanford 79
Amherst 19
Williams 17</p>
<p>UGA 5</p>
<p>IB, is there a typo among the UGA numbers? Is it 2,500 or 25,000?
It must be 2,500 with a typo under Yale Law 2004, right?</p>
<p>Gee, the representation is way, way narrower than I’d thought. It appears YLS admits the vast majority of new students from just 4 schools (HYPS). These are numbers for admitted, or matriculated? Must be admitted.</p>
<p>And is there a quota going on? Exactly 9 each year from Amherst?</p>
<p>UGA has 25000 people in it total, but 2500 in its honors college.</p>
<p>
Sorry, I should have clarified. UGA has 25,000 total undergraduates. Approximately 10% of those (2,500) are in the honors program.</p>
<p>I too found the Amherst numbers very odd.</p>
<p>IBclass,</p>
<p>Have you been reading the thread? It doesn’t look like it. I’ve stated several times why elite schools have the most representation at Harvard Law and Yale Law. To be an undergrad at an elite school, you (usually) have to be intelligent, ambitious, hard-working, go-getter type of person. To be at UGA, you don’t have to be. Consequently, many more students will come from the elite colleges. Not to mention the advantages persons at elite schools may have - legacy status, money, famioly econnections - that UGA students probably don’t have.</p>
<p>Yet, as you have so kindly demonstated, kids from UGA go to Harvard and/or Yale Law every year, a reminder that the adcoms at these schools have full confidence and faith that these kids are just as prepared and intelligent to succeed at their respective school.</p>
<p>Let’s analyze that information a but further IBclass.</p>
<p>This information states how many students from those schools acutally ENROLLED in the law school, not how many were ACCEPTED. And the schools with more representation generally have wealthier students, and can thus afford to accept an invitation from Harvard or Yale Law. On the other hand, students at UGA, on the whole, come from less wealthy families. While they may get an offer from Harvard or Yale, they are more often than not forced to turn to less expensive options for their legal education.</p>
<p>nice to see UGA gettin’ repped on CC :D</p>
<p>Hillary, I have indeed been reading the thread. My eyes are a little bleary from beating my head against the wall, but I have nevertheless read every post.</p>
<p>I still wonder why, despite the fact that at UGA honors you are
such a tiny percentage of students enrolls at Harvard and Yale Law.</p>
<p>Your argument about finances holds little water. As you keep stressing, UGA is quite cheap. After all, who wants to pay that absurd $200K for undergrad? Surely they have money to put towards 3 years of law school since they saved all that money for undergrad. Not to mention that those two have the best financial aid offers of the top law schools, that HYPS have the best undergraduate financial aid available to undergrads (with 50-60% of undergrads on FA), and that H/Y Law have 80% yields.</p>
<p>THAT QUOTE OF MINE JUST PROVED MY POINT!</p>
<p>Many students at the Honors College turned down undergraduate spots at the Ivies…BECAUSE THEY CANNOT AFFORD THEM.</p>
<p>CONSEQUENTLY, THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO ATTEND A TOP LAW EITHER.</p>
<p>They can get in, they just can’t afford it. </p>
<p>And as far as saving money goes…um? Speaking of arguments that hold no water…Working as a waiter part-time for four years is not going to give you enough money for Yale Law.</p>
<p>A friend of mine doing UGA Honors turned down Middlebury, UChicago, G-Town, & NYU.</p>
<p>$$$</p>
<p>I’d like to see stats on the total debt of those who have financial aid at each institution looks like.</p>
<p>Btw, tk Re: #206, I know that Brown cuts in front of some of those schools for Harvard Law, so I think it was just IB choosing a representative sample for which numbers were easily available, as well as using schools typically “indisputably” at the top. </p>
<p>I’m still interested in what Hillary would say about someone who will be receiving a bacherlor’s as a terminal degree and evidence that faculty is just as stellar across the top 100.</p>
<p>Holy crap, I don’t even consider myself an elitist at all but this thread goes so far in the egalitarian direction I find myself sounding like a snob.</p>
<p>FWIW, if Hillary limited her no-difference statement to top 25 or so, I’d probably agree that it’s more dependent on student and field at that point. Top 100 is a huge stretch, IMO.</p>
<p>Is there a correlation of opinions in this thread to the number of years of experience dealing with college admission issues?</p>
<p>Hillary, you can’t realistically expect us to believe that argument about the finances for law school. First off, wealthy or not, a lot of people will be taking out loans to attend top law schools because, as you should know, going to a top law school (moreso than undergrad) goes a long way in securing financial security. Are you really saying only a handful of smart Georgia grads can afford a top law school-like 9? Are you saying all those kids at the top law schools are full pay? Really? Come on, there’s something else going on other than very few people being able to afford it. For one reason or another (that is not finances) Georgia grads cannot get into top law schools.</p>
<p>Anyone I’ve ever met who got into Harvard or Yale Law School was willing to borrow the readily available money. A smart investment based on starting salaries.</p>
<p>Also, wouldn’t UGA have a lot of URM students who are is great demand at these law schools, could get in with considerably lower stats and would have top priority for scholarship aid?</p>
<p>lol, UGA is 3/4+ white. Not many URMs to be had :D</p>
<p>modestmelody, I know what you mean about feeling like a snob.<br>
But I almost feel a sense of civic duty here, and I’m not sure yet who is being the real egalitarian. I’m concerned about the implication that it makes no difference to invest in smaller classes, higher faculty pay, or better facilities, if the learning environment is effectively identical at schools throughout the country regardless of these differences. If the important differences truly have been erased, that’s a different matter. </p>
<p>I would not reject out of hand the possibility that UGA students just don’t apply to schools like Yale Law due to differences in family wealth. However, if it were true, UGA HC and similar schools should show strong success in areas that don’t require such a high level of investment. I’d expect them to show up high in the median starting and mid-career salary tables we’ve cited. Unfortunately, I don’t think those studies isolated any public HC programs from mainstream state university populations. If students in those programs are equal in ability and in college preparation to Ivy students, only more financially risk-averse, it would be interesting to see comparative salary or other outcomes.</p>
<p>My observation of students at a public honors college in my own state is that they are not, as a group, as strong as students at many private selective schools. That’s one of the main reasons my own kid decided against that school. Not only were their numbers weaker, but they did not seem to be as engaged. More lecturing, less discussion. The classes he visited were not as stimulating as the ones he visited elsewhere. Different learning environment, it appeared. Maybe UGA is different though.</p>
<p>Morsmodre,</p>
<p>Actually it makes a lot of sense. If you can get into Yale, you can get into pretty much anywhere, and that includes GREAT law schools that aren’t as great as Yale - with a scholarship. For example, someone could get into Yale Law with no aid, but get a partial scholarship to Michigan Law. This happens to UGA kids (and kids at every school).</p>
<p>hmom5,</p>
<p>What? URM? UGA’s population is heavily dominated by white people…</p>
<p>What a shame given GA’s minority population.</p>