DEM supporters ONLY: McCain's Victory and why it matters

Parent Cafe
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<p>I agree that Maureen Dowd’s column today was just a bunch of negative rant about both candidates. What does that woman eat for breakfast? But she also recently wrote a scathing one about Bill’s tactics. </p>

<p>There was a good article in the Atlantic in December about how potent Obama could be in effecting a change in our relationship with the Muslim world:</p>

<p>[Goodbye</a> to All That: Why Obama Matters](<a href=“http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200712/obama/3]Goodbye”>http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200712/obama/3)</p>

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<p>Obama and McCain would be an election that forced people to really think because there are so many clear contrasts–what is most important for America now: age and experience or youth and vision? A validation or a repudiation of the thinking that led us to invade and occupy Iraq? </p>

<p>Clinton and McCain just presents two more of the same politicians we have had in the years since Kennedy with little capacity to truly inspire and transform. Probably neither as bad as Bush, but neither with much capacity to heal our wounds–economic, moral, international. </p>

<p>I realize that Obama is a less well-known quantity. Those of us supporting him are taking a risk. But he inspires in a way I have never seen before. 10000 people at a rally today in Denver. Delirious crowds wherever he goes. Making people dare to dream of greatness. Moving previously private citizens (Caroline Kennedy) to speak from their heart and to join with him to fulfill the promise of greatness that we all, in some measure, still believe in.</p>

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<p>I’m just curious, patient.</p>

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<p>1) What exactly does that MEAN?</p>

<p>2) Would you say that George Bush’s prevalence over Al Gore was partially due to people voting with their hearts, or with their heads?</p>

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<p>Nervousashell…this is the parents’ cafe.</p>

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<p>Would you say that George Bush’s prevalence over Al Gore was partially due to people voting with their hearts, or with their heads?</p>

<p>Well I thought he won because of a mess up in Florida- </p>

<p>[Hanging</a> Chads: As the Florida Recount Implodes, the Supreme Court Decides Bush v. Gore - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/politics/2008/01/17/the-legacy-of-hanging-chads.html]Hanging”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/politics/2008/01/17/the-legacy-of-hanging-chads.html)</p>

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<p>Honestly. Is there anyone here who is really excited about any of the folks who are running for President? I mean really excited…I know that there are those who for partisan reasons say that this person or that person is great or intellectual or caring. But deep down inside…how many reallly think that any of those who we are now looking at are true All-Stars?</p>

<p>Whether you are a Democrat or Republican…what a sad state of affairs.</p>

<p>300 million people who live in this country and this is what we are presented with for the Presidency?</p>

<p>Seriously think about it. What a joke.</p>

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<p>I am seriously excited about Obama</p>

<p>My mother and I were just talking about a president from her home state- I am a little young of course to remember him as president- but he is now considered one of the top 10 presidents- but he wasn’t viewed that way going into the election.
[The buck stops here](<a href=“Harry S. Truman - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_S._Truman&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

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<p>I’d be happy with either Dem nominee, but I thought this was an interesting question when posed against the prospect of McCain.</p>

<p>On the one hand I’m thinking about my good S, at age 24, who’ll vote for Obama next week (we’re both in NY but different cities). He says that in his lifetime awareness, he’s only known presidents named: Bush, Clinton, Bush. He’s heard my H and me talk about the excitement of JFK, RFK, MLK. He’d like to feel inspired by his president. The oratory impresses him, and he feels that Obama could generate change and inspire others as he’s been inspired. </p>

<p>Until now, I’ve been for Hillary primarily because she’s such been such a fine Senator for this state. For national office, I figure she’s got it all: as a lawyer, former first lady, and senator she has experience with 3 major branches of government: judicial, executive, legislative. I’ve heard her speak on the one issue where I am well-informed (education policy) and was staggered at her ability to juggle 24 variables and know which issues were real for a classroom and which just trendy. Her grasp of that one issue was 3-dimensional. I assume she does that well to inform herself on economics, defense and things I am less well-informed. Experience includes judgment, which is what concerns me about a younger candidate. I remember well how exciting JFK was, but there was that first year when he erred hugely until he learned not to listen to the generals over the Bay of Pigs. The following year, he was great on the Cuban Missile Crisis. Similarly, I’m a bit concerned that we don’t have any time to let someone figure out the ropes during his first year in office. </p>

<p>I imagine a match between Hillary and McCain would have to be all about the issues, while the match between Obama and McCain would allow McCain to sit on his age and experience, not to mention race, to win. </p>

<p>I’d rather see the two oldsters duke it out on the issues than see Obama condescended to over age and experience. Yet, in the back of my mind, I know folks said that JFK was “too young” and too Catholic to win, but his intellect carried the day and win he did. </p>

<p>So I’m on the fence for who to vote for in the Dem primary next “Super Tuesday.”</p>

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<p>I don’t think so. I think that on one central issue, the war in Iraq and the different attitudes toward countries which are not our allies, there is far more difference between Obama and McCain and they would be debating the issues and the approach to foreign policy and national defense much more than Hillary and McCain whose views are more moderate.</p>

<p>My guess, just based upon what I know of Obama (constitutional law professor at U. Chicago, president of Harvard Law Review) he probably has a far more sophisticated grasp of economics and other domestic issues that involve economic components, such as social security and Medicare than McCain. On these issues, Hillary and Obama are quite similar. Again though, I believe Obama would be far more capable of persuading opponents than would Hillary. Although I understand that she has learned and evolved quite a bit since her health care debacle in the 90’s, I still think her approach toward her opponents is not nearly as skillful as Obama’s. </p>

<p>Hope you follow your son’s lead :). </p>

<p>Also, I am hoping that everyone is wrong about the racism. The early results make it so hard to tell. Iowa, he won the vote; New Hampshire I have heard some whispers that there was some racial overtone there. I guess Super Tuesday results will tell a lot about how that is going across the country. If there is a racial divide…then, how very, very, very sad. Tragic, really, in what it says about our country. And here we criticize the Iraqis for their ethnic battles.</p>

<p>Also, I missed a David Brooks column from a couple of weeks ago that did strike a chord in me:
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/opinion/18brooks.html?_r=1&scp=9&sq=david+brooks&st=nyt&oref=slogin[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/opinion/18brooks.html?_r=1&scp=9&sq=david+brooks&st=nyt&oref=slogin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And, Emeraldkity, LOL and thank you:

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<p>Well, Patient

I really will be searching my heart in the coming week. You’ll be amused to hear what my 80-year-old Mom did. She and my brothers all live in New Hampshire. While my brothers’ families voted for Hillary, that grandma went for Obama ONLY because she “wants the young people to have their candidate.” She’s a retired college prof. And she rocks. SO my mind is quite open.</p>

<p>Actually, I’m going to approach it this way: will listen to tomorrow night’s debate, then scour both of their websites to see exactly what they believe, TODAY. I feel I’m depending too much on old thoughts and recollections about speeches from years past.
Including my perception of several months ago, when Obama first announced, that his policy positions (posted on his website) were too thin. Now there’s been some time for him to develop his positions. So I’m going to see what’s there for the present and future, not so much the past, of what both Hill and Obama have done or said.</p>

<p>I know some say positions don’t matter, a candidate will say anything to be elected. But in the case of both Hillary and Obama, I respect them both and would value what they say, not assume it’s just posturing for election’s sake. BTW, I feel that about McCain, too, although I’ve never voted for a Republican my entire life and see no reason to begin, although I think the Republicans did choose the one authentic voice there (assuming it’ll be McCain).</p>

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That was something my S also felt quite strongly.</p>

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<p>I don’t know if Clinton would beat McCain- I think the election would be down party lines- however- I already know of GOP who are backing Obama</p>

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<p>Paying3–I like your mom and wish my Dad would follow her lead :).<br>
I will respect your decision regardless!</p>

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<p>I watched the debate today. McCain is too old and too mean. He was all over Romney.</p>

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<p>Yes, I’ve always heard McCain is mean and has a legendary temper. He and Bill would make a good pair :). I remember how ugly I thought this was of McCain even before I was following any of this closely: [McCain’s</a> Letter To Obama, Text Of Republican Senator’s Letter On Lobbying Reform - CBS News](<a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/07/politics/main1289745.shtml]McCain’s”>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/07/politics/main1289745.shtml)</p>

<p>I have to say though, I’m not so sure about the old. Maybe I am getting defensive since I am “upper-middle-age”. I am guessing these candidates are surviving on zero sleep and maybe Mitt took something (even if he is a Mormon) to get some extra energy :slight_smile: (not that I watched the debates)</p>

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<p>Romney and McCain sat next to each other during the debate and McCain looked like he was old enough to be Romney’s father. Or was it Romney’s grandfather? :)</p>

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<p>Haha, yes, of course.</p>

<p>However, things like “Who could I sit down and have a beer with?” played into the reason Bush became so popular. Personal matters. People voting with their hearts, not their heads.</p>

<p>Obama really is on a platform to try and win based on the same things that helped get Bush elected. </p>

<p>If that works for you, great, but I think people would walk away from an Obama presidency very disappointed. We’re having hard times now, yes, but certainly the country has faced many, many worse ones. Right now, it’s not quintessential to look for a president that might keep everyone inspired and morale up for four years (even though that would NEVER happen if he won). It’s more important I think to look at the issues, and use that to work our way out of the mess we’re in. Inspiration isn’t going to do that.</p>

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<p>“Is there anyone here who is really excited about any of the folks who are running for President? I mean really excited…I know that there are those who for partisan reasons say that this person or that person is great or intellectual or caring. But deep down inside…how many reallly think that any of those who we are now looking at are true All-Stars?”</p>

<p>Oh yes! I am thrilled about Obama. I have been ever since the first time I saw him in person and spoke to him (way before he was famous). This man is a superstar, and we’ll be lucky to have a person like him in the White House.</p>

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<p>Ditto Hanna. I think someone like Obama comes along once in a generation if we are lucky.</p>

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<p>I agree that Obama has that “man of the hour” aura. I don’t see how any of the other candidates could excite people the same way (except for Ron Paul, but please folks, forget him and move on!)</p>

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<p>I read this article and it made me pause. I wonder if this is true. Considering that much of the killing going on, not only in Iraq, but in other parts of the world (Africa comes to mind) is being done in the name of religion, with different sects of Islam fighting each other, and Muslim hate of anything non-Islamic (Jewish faith and Christianity), would a “reformed” Muslim who now practices the Christian faith be someone they would admire or despise? </p>

<p>Would it make them feel that, by embracing the religion of infidels, he has turned his back on the Muslim faith?</p>

<p>Just a thought…</p>