Desperate over 12-month old dog who isn't house-broken yet

Parent Cafe
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<p>Definitely give the medication time to work to rule out the UTI, and work with your vet to determine if it’s true incontinence or behavioral. He may be sleeping more soundly when he has a bed to sleep on (vs. the bare crate floor) but even so, that alone shouldn’t cause ‘bedwetting.’ This is a quality of life issue, you have a contract with the breeder, and you are here asking for help and advice. I don’t see that giving up on the dog for a little bit of pee… Our dogs are part of our families for many years and you have every right to be concerned.</p>

<p>Was he recently neutered? In some cases there can be spay incontinence, but that’s more apt to happen with pediatric neutering, which is not the case with him. There could also be a congenital defect. If so, these can worsen with age, and medication may or may not help. </p>

<p>For me, red flags went up when you mentioned the breeder’s explanation. They would have had a good idea whether or not he was going to have a correct bite long before 10 months, and if they had doubts, wouldn’t that have been all the more reason for them (or their friend) to work on the basics and prepare him for life with a potential new family - no matter who it might be? And don’t their own Cavaliers live in the house?</p>

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<p>I didn’t reread everything, but can you explain when he is peeing in the crate? Is it when you go to let him out? The reason I asked is one of our dogs has a habit of “glee peeing”. When he has a full bladder and someone comes in, or at the vets, and the person greets him, he tinkles just a bit. The vet said most dogs out grow this by the age of one, but he was closer to 2 before we saw an improvement. He hasn’t done it in months, but when my husband came home the other night, he got so excited and tinkled. Again, this was with a very full bladder as he had had dinner and water and fell asleep for hours before he saw my husband.</p>

<p>I still believe your issue may be the UTI, so time will give you the results you need; at least I hope so!</p>

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<p>So perfect example of our experiences with this dog. Last night he was sitting on the couch right next to me (within ten feet of our patio door that he is let out when he scratches on it), began to ‘nest’ with some of the bigger, softer blankets, I thought to get comfortable and lie down for a nap. Next thing I know, he’s ‘cleaning’ himself, which is always a clue to me that he has just peed. Sure enough, I look down on the couch, and he has drenched a blanket and pillow (thankfully both are washable). And I’m thinking to myself, “I was sitting right here next to him… even kind of moved some of the blanket closer to him so he’d have more to nest with, and he pees right next to me!” Ugh!</p>

<p>So last night I put a different blanket in his crate. He was let out at 10PM to pee (water taken up at 8PM) on leash. When H got up at 4:45AM to shower, I could hear the dog bark, so I decided to get up and let him out, even though this is something H always does when he gets up and after he showers and gets dressed. Came downstairs and he had actually really soaked the blanket. Of course I took him outside, but he had no interest in pottying since he’d just gone. When H came downstairs, he took him out (I had decided at this point to go back to sleep on the couch with the dog because I figured he’d sleep with me for at least a couple of more hours, which he did, then I let him out and he peed again. </p>

<p>So two accidents last night.</p>

<p>Snowball, I know what you’re talking about with the excitement piddle, and this isn’t that. In fact, he’s never tinkled when greeted by anyone. He does just fine. </p>

<p>We are doing obedience classes once a week; what’s nice is that there are only the two dogs in the class so we can ask lots of questions, but I think this behavior is beyond what this trainer is capable of helping us with. Does anyone know if any of those camps that owners send their dogs off to for training do any work with dogs that are having house breaking issues, whether or not it’s in the crate or on blankets. But yes, we need to have everything checked out with the vet before going that drastic. </p>

<p>lspf - he was neutered the first week of December, so not quite a year old.</p>

<p>

I guess I felt like I did and overdid my homework on this breed and breeders in our area because I knew how expensive the dog would be. I had certain expectations I wanted in a new dog, i.e., not a yappy dog, not a territorial breed, etc. Our previous miniature schnauzer had bladder stones and surgery twice, which was quite traumatic. I did not want a breed that was prone to bladder issues after that. Oh, before we got this dog, I spent quite a bit of time researching and considering rescuing a dog, but all of them I found seemed to either have health problems, or the family wanted the dog placed in a home where there was another dog. Those were deal breakers for me, which is why I took so many precautions in finding just the right dog. Yet here we are… having our lives upended by these constant accidents, whether or not they’re from a UTI, separation anxiety, or another medical issue.</p>

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<p>^^^ you did your homework, and you’re right - they’re generally known for making great house and apartment dogs. All the more reason I think the breeder was very remiss in not addressing his issue sooner. And the soaky bedding and blanket on the couch def. seem to indicate an incontinence issue. It’s not normal for him to be peeing in his sleep!</p>

<p>Hoping the UTI is to blame, and there’ll be relief soon. If not, the vet will probably suggest medications to try - short or (if necessary) long term. I would also keep the breeder apprised of all this - whether she wants to hear it or not</p>

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<p>Since he is peeing on all of these soft, fluffy items, I would remove all access to soft, fluffy items and treat him like a young puppy when it comes to pee issues. Be vigilant with taking him out regularly. I would not allow him on the furniture where he might find soft items.</p>

<p>Of course, the UTI could be a major factor here, so that needs to be cleared up and eliminated as a cause.</p>

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<p>I would suggest taking him out just as soon as someone is awake in the am. Waiting until DH is done with his shower is probably too long. Once the dog awakens it is hard for him to stay dry.</p>

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<p>I may have missed it, but I don’t see anywhere that you have mentioned whether a doggie door is a possibility. Is it? Of course, for some it isn’t an option, if one has a rental or an apartment. Now, if someone is always around to let the dog out every couple of hours and the dog likes its crate, no problem. But I like freedom, personally, I always come down on the side of freedom!</p>

<p>For people who have that option and don’t want to be pinned down by a dogs urinary schedule, a doggie door is a win/win scenario. Let me give you an example. </p>

<p>My husband wants to go on a long snowshoe hike to Mt Rainier on a day I’ll probably be out of town. So he’ll be gone about 12 hours during the day, leaving the dogs by themselves. We aren’t usually gone that much, and there is often someone at home, or at least home every couple of hours, but…in this situation, he can go and do what he wants without guilt or worry, or hiring someone to come watch over the dogs. You might think, what will the dogs do while he’s gone?</p>

<p>They will sleep most of the time, on the downstairs couch, or run to the pillows laid out for them upstairs. They’ll eat, drink as much water as they want, spend some time running around the house playing with dog toys and chasing each other, sniffing around looking for crumbs, maybe tearing apart a newspaper (bad girls), going outside to go to the bathroom whenever they want, and if there’s sun (ha, yeah right), they’ll lounge around outside for awhile. They have freedom, and we have freedom. There is no way he could leave them in a crate for 12 hours. He couldn’t do his hike, as they would be too miserable.</p>

<p>Is a doggie door an option? If you own your home, there are so many ways to put it in. We put one in the basement, and it was just too far for them to travel, plus it was a rather unsecure area,as we have eagles, and I was always afraid they would be attacked. So my husband cut a full size door into the mid level of our house, gated a small area, and put in a dog door. Freedom for all! The cavaliers very rarely have accidents anymore, except…</p>

<p>The oldest dog loves warm clothes out of the dryer. Actually, they both do. But we know to drape them on top of the dogs, not let the dogs lay on them on a pile in the floor. Apparently it is just so irresistible, a nice warm pile of clothes, she just has to pee on them. I have no idea why! It must feel really, really good.</p>

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<p>I completely agree with this. </p>

<p>There seem to be at least two things at work here: 1) the UTI, which he may have had for a LONG time, and 2) he isn’t really housebroken, possibly because of (1) and lack of attention.</p>

<p>I would treat him exactly the way I would treat an 8-wk-old puppy: crate training, extremely frequent trips outside to pee, including during the night if necessary, gated into the kitchen during times he is out of the crate. No cuddling on the couch, no waiting until he “asks” to be let out, because you KNOW he isn’t reliable. He needs to have good habits built up from scratch. And for god’s sake GET RID OF THE BEDDING!! Anything that he has peed on either throw out or treat with Nature’s Miracle. </p>

<p>BTW, one would never expect a new puppy to hold it from the time he wakes up until after your morning ablutions. He needs to go out first thing, and maybe even during the night. I always have a puppy sleep in my bedroom, so that I can hear it if he needs to go out. If I don’t have a crate there, I tie him on a short leash to the radiator–we have old-fashioned steam radiators, which in the bedroom are almost always turned off–giving him enough room to comfortably lie down in several positions, but no more room that he would have in a crate. Never had a night time accident. HAVE gotten up in the middle of the night to take him out a few times. And chewing on the leash–I use a cheap fabric one for this purpose–gives him something to do at night. :)</p>

<p>Honestly, I think if you aren’t willing to devote a week or two to this you should take him back to the breeder now, so that he can be rehomed before he gets any older. </p>

<p>I appreciate that this is frustrating for you, but the choices are pretty clear to me. The UTI <em>must</em> be addressed, but fixing that alone is not going to solve this problem.</p>

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<p>Consolation, you’re a dog parent that takes after my own heart. When sabadog came to live with us, he was an 8 week old puppy with significant digestive issues that required trips outside every two hours. It was a pain, but he slept with me; the minute he even twitched, he was outside.</p>

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<p>^^Wow, every two hours? That is worse than a baby! Our lack of sleep with our youngest puppy only lasted a month. We brought her home when she was 11 weeks old and after the first night of listening to her cry in the crate, we gave up. We put our sons mattress on the floor (so if she wandered off she wouldn’t fall), and she slept snuggled up in his neck. She never urinated in his room because I took her outside once a night for that month, until she could make it down the stairs and through the dog door on her own. I can’t imagine doing it every two hours!</p>

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<p>Well, he was sick, poor guy. We were working with our vet on some tummy troubles. Happily sabadog is now in terrific health and regular as clockwork. Dogs are just like people…sometimes it takes a bit to find the right combo of meds and diet.</p>

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<p>I agree, you must take him out as soon as the first person starts moving about in the morning. For the first 2 years Maggie always went straight to the door to pee once we let her out of her cage. She’d start whining as soon as she heard someone was up. I believe most dogs have to pee as soon as they become awake.</p>

<p>I, personally, must pee very very soon after I wake up on many mornings also. That first morning urge can be very strong and I’m sure it is in dogs too.</p>

<p>You must follow up with the vet on this for the sake of everybody. Once all bladder conditions and incontinence are ruled out you will have a better idea of the situation. Basic potty training with crate, frequent potty outings and treats may be in order for a couple of weeks. It will be worth it in the long run but will be hard.</p>

<p>I would probably not keep a dog with that problem, but I would try really hard to solve it. I am a germaphobe with a sensitive nose who also has worked hard to have a nice home that I would not want filled with pee. That said, Maggie is my baby, and if the problem arises in her old age I will not get rid of her then (luckily she in only 10 pounds so her accidents would not be as big as a large dog!). I will adjust and deal with it, maybe diaper her. BUT, I would not keep a newly obtained dog with an unsolvable problem, so people should lay off the guilt trip for the OP.</p>

<p>Also, OP, you need to find a DOG forum somewhere and post there. Those folks will be helpful. There is something called a “buddy band” I have read about for boy dogs. It may be more used for “marking” situations, but maybe it would help. Not sure if it is like a boy diaper or not. I have read in on yorkietalk.com. Perhaps there is a website devoted to your dog’s breed.</p>

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<p>I had a short phone conversation with a dog trainer today that was referred to me by one of my doctor’s (when in her office almost broke down and started crying as I was thinking about how much this was stressing me out). This trainer actually takes dogs with problematic behavior into her home and works with them.</p>

<p>But before we even got that far in the conversation, she was convinced this is highly likely a medical problem. She said if he was marking it would be happening in more places and with more frequency. She also reiterated that bladder stones could be a part of this and to follow up with that definitely. I could just tell in her voice, in her experience she has dealt with dogs who have true ‘marking’ problems, and she doesn’t think this sounds like that, after asking me a bunch of questions. Nor does she think it’s a sign of separation anxiety because the dog so willingly goes in the crate when told to - we’ve never had a struggle with that. In fact, today was the very first time that I came downstairs and the dog had actually gone in the crate without being asked to do so and was laying nice and quiet on his pillow just watching me move around the kitchen. After about ten minutes, he came out of the crate - not signs that this dog doesn’t like his crate.</p>

<p>One other thing she suggested that we have not been doing is to feed the dog in the crate also. She said it is true that dogs very generally will not pee in an area that they sleep and eat in, unless there’s a medical reason. We have not been feeding him in his crate, but will start to do so, hoping to sort of up the ante. </p>

<p>::Knocking on wood:: the last two mornings the bedding has been dry. Last night we decided to go back to leaving the radio next to his crate on the classical music station - this helps drown out outside noises (other dogs barking, when H gets up in the morning, etc.) so he sleeps more soundly and can hold it until someone lets him out. In fact, when I came downstairs this morning around 7:45, he didn’t hear me until I was at the bottom of the stairs - then he lifted his head to see what the noise was and saw it was me. Of course, I took him out right away although H had taken him out around 5:15AM. So hopefully playing the radio every night will help him stay asleep and keep his bladder quiet until someone is actually downstairs.</p>

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<p>I have Maggie’s crate covered with a blanket. It covers the top and much of the sides. It’s next to the sofa, so that is the side that has the least blanket. I think it makes it feel cozier and safer, and also probably muffles sounds somewhat. It might make it feel even more den-like so maybe even give your guy more incentive not to mess in his place. It’s sort of like covering a bird cage, though I don’t really know why people do that… I’m not a bird person.</p>

<p>Glad to hear that it might be getting better, and I’ll suggest again to find a good dog website to read and post on, you might need it in the future. Did you say he was a king charles spaniel? Googled ‘king charles spaniel forum’ and found this right away. You should try it to see if others have this problem with their dogs, and mark it in case other problems crop up. I love reading the yorkie forums myself on a different website.</p>

<p>[CavalierTalk:</a> Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Board & Forum](<a href=“http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/forum.php]CavalierTalk:”>CavalierTalk: Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Board & Forum)</p>

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<p>There are a lot of dog people on this forum. I’m going with the bladder infection crowd – and hope you can get that cleared up and then address the house training.</p>

<p>The belly band, or buddy band, is a belt sort of arrangement for boy dogs. It’s great for dogs that leak or mark. I would put a sanitary napkin in it so I wouldn’t have to wash it as often. Look for such a thing at your helpful independent pet store.</p>

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<p>No way is your dog marking. Anyone who even suggests that to you is an idiot. </p>

<p>Sorry, but this situation is really getting to me for some reason. I should probably bow out of this thread because it is driving me crazy. :)</p>

<p>Feeding the dog in the crate is a good idea. Following standard housebreaking procedures with him in addition to aggressively addressing his health issues is an even better one.</p>

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<p>Radio on again last night.
Dry bed again this morning!</p>

<p>I really do think having the background noise of the radio makes him sleep more deeply so he’s less likely to wake and have those bladder urges until this UTI heals (or whatever medical issues might be going on).</p>

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<p>Great, teri! I hope things are trending in the right direction.</p>

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<p>Excellent news. Hang in there.</p>

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<p>Love good news! We crate both our dogs when we leave and have always left a radio or tv on for them to block out the outside noise. We also joke about what they want to “watch” while we are gone; I like to leave on sitcoms or The Family Channel, my husband insist that want to watch sports :)</p>