<p>Observations from where we live (not generalizing, just giving one very teeny slice)…the kids enlisting in the service are the lower income students, the weaker students academically, and/or those not intending to go to college in general. </p>
<p>One of my D’s friends was selected and is attending the Naval Academy. However, she doesn’t fall into the above mentioned profile in any respects.</p>
<p>This is in a rural area in Vermont.</p>
<p>Ethics:
A parental lesson in honesty and courage: homeschooling in its purest and simplest form.</p>
<p>I agree with those who say that the services are not for everyone, in fact not many at all…and for a great many reasons. I am, however, disturbed by those who believe, with certainty, that teenagers can pick colleges, careers (including many “trades” that don’t involve college, such as carpentry, plumbing, secretarial, manufacturing etc. etc), but that these same “kids” become nothing much better than dumb “victims” when contemplating a career serving their country. </p>
<p>Will everyone in America become a banker, doctor, musician, pro-athlete or international spy? Maybe on cc, but not in the real world.</p>
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<p>LFWB, no matter where anyone stands on the recruitment issue, we should all agree on this.</p>
<p>Hi, everyone. I dare venture into this fray after lurking for a while.</p>
<p>Considering the importance of the military to our nation, for our lives, I certainly do not object to their pitches to highschool kids. It is legal. It is an avenue that may well be the best option for some kids. We do need more soldiers. Just as colleges send representatives and literature, so can the military. They should be treated with respect which they often are not, even before they begin their presentation. They should treat the school, students and parents with respect, and complaints should be filed if they cross the line. Unfortunely, there unscrupulous recruiters, as there are such people in every walk of life. </p>
<p>The objection I have about the games, commercials, viewbooks, and pitches, is that they are not balanced by an equally graphic view of the downsides of military service. I believe that the military should be required to present this part of military life along with the video shots of water skiing, vacationing and working in very safe positions. The reality of the situation for enlisted recruits, in particular, is that they will be in combat very soon. There are rigid rules and drawbacks to being in the military. It is unfair to give a “Club Med”, career fair picture of being in the military, without that other side. There are still kids who sign up thinking that they can pick their assignments, and that they’ll be traveling on Glory Road.<br>
For those men and women who are in the military, are planning to join the military, thank you. You have my respect and gratitude. Though I may not agree with the decisions that our government make in using the armed forces, I have nothing but the highest regard for those who are serving.</p>
<p>I sincerely hope most do agree that whether or not they would choose to serve and whether or not they agree with the governments’ policies or decision to use the armed services in certain wars, and so on, that those who serve should be respected, honored, supported and appreciated.</p>
<p>Jenna in uniform? Excuse me while I have a Private Benjamin moment.</p>
<p>I read in the NYT that very, very few members of Congress have children in the enlisted ranks. Most kids who go to college, and most offspring of congressmen/women do go to college, will join ROTC if they join the military. I have no objections to the Academies or ROTC recruiting and painting rosy pictures of military life, because those kids have a couple of years to get a taste of it before they make their commitments. They are not going to be shipped out to the trenches within a year after signing on the dotted line at age 18. So I feel that the nastiness about ROTC recruiting and military programs on campuses is unwarrented. Protest, petition, respectful exchange of opinions all done in a civilized fashion, yes. Pure meanness, should not be tolerated. All colleges using federal funds certainly should have military representation there to present that option to the students without being heckled. That has not been the case on many campuses.</p>
<p>I have no problems with recruiters painting a rosy picture, but I wish they would stay out of the high schools.
At least, I would like them to be limited to the same venue and times that the other organizations are, instead of following kids class to class.
Our PTA made national news for voting to keep them out of the school ( which I voted and spoke against BTW, because it couldn’t be enforced I felt it was an empty gesture- & as I said, if they kept to the same time & place as others, I didn’t have an issue), but of course because of NCLB, they can’t be kept from contacting students.</p>
<p>I began to become more concerned after reading articles about students who are pressured to sign at 16 with parents permission, and then told at 18, that if they changed their mind they would be brought up on charges.
Of stories regarding young men, with emotional/physical issues that would keep them from serving, but who didn’t want to accept that, and who gladly signed up, only to be crushed when they were released.</p>
<p>I realize that these cases may or may not be wide spread, and I know that last year, there were unprecented investigations into recruiting practices, but I have met a couple of these young men, and it really ****es me off, they they were treated just as a warm body.</p>
<p>Most kids and parents can take care of themselves, but I was just trying to express frsutration wiht recruiters badgering kids in the high school, and high schools that steer certain groups of kids to military rather than all their available options.</p>
<p>The military in some areas however, are trying to meet other groups halfway. I read that last night representatives attended a PFLAG ( parents and friends of lesbians and gays) meeting in Maryland to explain the DADT policy and how it impacts service members and their families.</p>
<p>I haven’t read how it went, but I think that improving communication and information is going in the right direction</p>
<p>FountainSiren, I liked your post alot. Young adults who enlist shouldn’t be considered the dummies of society. These kids have not been living in caves, unaware of whats going on in the world. They’ve had all of it put in their faces since 911 when most were 8th graders. They seem wise beyond their years in most cases. I know several enlisted kids who are currently serving in several non-combative places. They have jobs in the military much like civilian jobs. My sister is Army enlisted & is in medicine here in the states. And I highly doubt that they only send the dumb ones to Iraq. They need their best & brightest there. The kids that can’t get into college either from lack of funds or lack of direction, need options. The military isn’t a bad one. Another kid might be just as happy working for “Uncle Billy”. There is a saying that we all can’t be the Queen Bee. There must be good worker bees as well. Even though my kid is at a service academy, I know that he didn’t go into it blindly. He knows the risks & is willing to take them. He was set on serving this country one way or another. There are a good many kids out there who are smart enough not to let a recruiter sway them. Give 'em some credit. If they feel that serving their country is a path that they MUST walk, they’ve certainly earned my respect.</p>
<p>Why should they stay out of high schools? There are many highschools in this country where the military is one of the best options for those students who can qualify for it. More of those kids in some of those neighborhoods are injured, killed or inprisoned in the years after graduation than would be had they entered the military. Even with our situation today. Those kids are not going to college, their prospect for good jobs are poor, and their homelife and community are treacherous. </p>
<p>And you know there would be an outcry (justifiably) if they were the only type of schools targeted for recruitment. The fact of the matter is that entering the military is an honorable path. It is an option that should be presented to young people who are going to be transitioning out of high school. THere are illegal tactics used in many businesses, and the military does have its share of liars and cheats. From what I have seen of the path an application to the military takes, once you sign does not automatically force you in. It’s a bit more than that. And I do not believe that a court is going force an 18 year old who signed up with his parents’ permission while he was 16. Most of the complaints I have seen from the troops are from those who signed up not anticipating the war and now cannot get out because of emergency clauses in their contract that have been activated. Many of those soldiers signed up for the extra money from the National Guard or Reserve Units or were given civilian type jobs (typist, chef, etc) only to find out that they are on the front line because of our situation in Iraq. That is why I believe that a full disclose session should be given to those who enlist that tells you the down side joining after all of the wonderful ads have drawn the kids in. It should be a required and consistent part of the enlistment process. Advertisement and recruitment are fine, but full disclosure in an understamdable format, not just small print, should also be provided.</p>
<p>*And I do not believe that a court is going force an 18 year old who signed up with his parents’ permission while he was 16. *
I know that
my point was that, that isn’t what some kids are told by recruiters
When we have parents, who aren’t together enough to know what their kids need to do to graduate- and blame the school, when they don’t have it together spring semester of senior year, I am not surprised that some parents aren’t aware of their rights and responsiblities or their kids
The flip side to that though, is that perhaps if the recruiter doesn’t want the student to be turned away, they will make sure that they are taking the courses to graduate</p>
<p>I also feel that the school can take some initiative in discussing the military option with those kids considering it. I have seen schools downright nasty to recruiters making it difficult for them to make their pitch. I have seen petitions wanting to keep the recruiters out. Some of these parent/school groups seem to be using more energy keeping out our military than they are with drug dealers. The recruiters should be graciously welcomed, given their time to give their pitch and leave their material. The schools can go over the military options in a less biased way, leaving out the Club Med aspects in the videos and viewbooks. It’s a shame that college counseling is such a big deal, and there is little available for those who choose not to immediately continue their education. The materials should also be shared with the parents. How the kids and parents use the information is not the business of the school, but providing information is an important part of education, and the school can fulfill that service.</p>
<p>There are “no contact” lists now that your kid can sign up for, aren’t there. That’s what my oldest S did and it worked fine until…</p>
<p>He had an e-commerece class last year and the teacher would occasionally bring into class various people to talk about their occupation. One day, the visitor was a Navy recruiter. I’m told this guy laid in on pretty thick with the “great pay, you’re not going to see any combat, etc. etc.”. He asked everyone to fill out an info card and my son, feeling intimidated, did so as well. In hindsight, I told him he didn’t have to, but with the close quarters of the classroom and and the recuriter milling around collecting cards and answering questions, he figured he would just go with the flow.</p>
<p>I don’t mind the recruiters on campus and at job and college fairs where a student has the ability to come as close or to be as far away as he chooses. The classroom situation changes the dynamic a bit, limiting the distance options of the student.</p>
<p>Well if most public schools are like ours, and I think they are, the kids have been “captive audiences” for the biases of the teachers for years, especially English (or should I say “communications”), and “social studies.” Up close and personal for 12 years. Still, we gotta fear that big bad recruiter in near proximity to our darlings for a whole class period. :)</p>
<p>Little or no chance of personal harm from something said in English class. It is the harm element which makes me want to err on the side of free will.</p>
<p>No free will? Were the kids forced to sign up then and there? Our district instituted a “Peace and Conflict Studies” course years ago, in addition to the “Multicultural Literature” course. They also did away with the first year of World History and we now have “African and Asian Studies.” These classes all have a quite obvious anti-American slant. To my knowledge no parent has complained, yet the idea that an American soldier might be in the same room with the kids for forty minutes sends shivers up their spines. I think it might wake some of these kids up a little bit to have an actual American soldier standing in front of them for a class period. At the very least it’d be a chance for 40 minutes of a badly needed different perspective, in my opinion.</p>
<p>I guess it depends on the district and the school-
My D took AP Euro history last year, and it was taught by a man who came to teaching later in life after a well traveled career ( and speaks 8 languages I think, including Yiddish), including living in Berlin before the wall came down.</p>
<p>She did have a multicultural lit course, that tried to echo the areas of the world that were being discussed in history.
BUt don’t worry, they still made her read Steinbeck & Hemingway</p>
<p>Responding to the OP the military comes to all of the big track meets and sets up a truck and there’s a giant moniter where people play military games. They also give out free stuff and take people’s info. A ton of kids go over and do pushups for free stuff too…I’m always like woooooow double-u tee eff</p>
<p>hs,</p>
<p>Your kids are in private school right? I seem to remember you’re saying so in an earlier thread. And I know you don’t think much of public schools.</p>
<p>Do recruiters come to the school? Do they come into any of the classrooms for the specific purpose of recruitment?</p>
<p>Come to think of it, this would be a question for all parents whose kids are/were in private school? I don’t have any experience with private schools, so I honestly don’t know.</p>
<p>“Our district instituted a “Peace and Conflict Studies” course years ago, in addition to the “Multicultural Literature” course. They also did away with the first year of World History and we now have “African and Asian Studies.” These classes all have a quite obvious anti-American slant.”</p>
<p>Anti-American in what way? Just curious.</p>