Detention?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Emeraldkity, whatever the school policy, I would expect my child to be treated equally and that school rules be enforced consistently. You mentioned that other students come in late all the time but your daughter was singled out</p>

<p>Oh no I didn’t mean at * this * school</p>

<p>I was thinking of another school- a school with an IB program actually- where a friends daughter went home for lunch with her boyfriend and apparently didn’t make it back for the rest of that day- (only one of her teachers marked her absent-her mom found out, when she called her to remind her of an after school appt- and she was “busy” this is a 10th grader )</p>

<p>Also the policies seem to vary at the schools- some schools have the policy posted on their site- it generally is so many tardys equals an absence that can’t be excused.</p>

<p>What happened with D is that I think everyone who is still in the hall when the late bell rings- is swept up and has to go to detention. This way- its isn’t up to the teacher necessarily- and isn’t every day. BUt if you happen to be in the hall when the principal or whomever comes by- then you got caught.
Her bus had gotten there late- ( its less than 2 miles- but that time of day they stop at every stop )</p>

<p>She said though that the “nice” security officer was there- and let them go early :wink: so while I was upset about it- to her it apparently wasn’t a big deal-
I was mainly worried about her getting something to eat, because she gets low blood sugar- but she said she was fine.</p>

<p>I know that as a district- they have a higher rate of disciplining AA kids- but at her school, it is pretty even. I also like that they take it seriously- but I guess I do think they need a little more allowance for a couple min late to school- they don’t even have homeroom till 2nd period, because some upper classmen have late arrival.</p>

<p>At her previous school, we had problems not just with kids arriving late, but when kids were skipping school altogether and we called their parents, their parents said they were excused ( according to the secretary the kids attended school just enough to not get picked up for truancy)</p>

<p>I didn’t make policy- I was just a parent volunteer & the attendance secretary couldn’t do anything either, without the principals ok- but she sure grumbled about it and I don’t blame her.
It wasn’t doing these kids any favors to treat school as a joke.
( this was at an alternative school & some think “alternative” means no rules IMO)</p>

<p>I think I will ask for it to be mentioned at the parent meeting however- because when in school discipline is meted out, parents aren’t necessarily contacted- and I think parents should know/want to know what is happening with their kids</p>

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<p>When my oldest went to our local public high school, I think the policy was to give detention after school on the third tardy. And I believe the students could go to detention on a different day if they were unable to go that day.</p>

<p>At the other Catholic high school that my next two have gone too, they give detention (after school) for every tardy. </p>

<p>But I haven’t heard of lunch detention.</p>

<p>And I believe both schools will excuse any tardies if the parent writes a note.</p>

<p>Sorry your school is being so inflexible!</p>

23

<p>As a former teacher, I will point out that kids who are late to class are extremely disruptive, and kids who make a habit of it make you want to scream. And if it happens every day that someone is late (common if each of the 30 kids in the class is late 4 or 5 times a year (which isn’t really that much)), it means the class starts late every single time, or has to be restarted, etc. It’s massively annoying.</p>

<p>Now, for the parental POV: if the city bus is often late, perhaps your D should take an earlier bus, or simply walk to school. 2 miles is not that far, and if she’s feeling overly energetic in class (as you mentioned), the walk might be helpful. I know two miles with a ridiculously heavy backpack is a lot, but perhaps the backpack isn’t always so heavy?</p>

<p>As for an all-purpose excuse: “I’m sorry my daughter was late; she wasn’t feeling well this AM so I kept her home until I was sure it was safe to send her to school.” Transportation issues are predictable, and therefore a poor excuse; a stomach bug is a great excuse and absolutely unverifiable. Just don’t use it too often.</p>

<p>And perhaps your D should make sure she has some protein bars in her backpack or locker? Ones she doesn’t like too much so she doesn’t eat them unless this kind of thing happens?</p>

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<p>Having parents notified when kids get lunch detention might be unpopular. Lunch detention is the punishment for very minor offenses, and it does not require any action on the part of the parent (after-school detention, which might involve the parent arranging transportation, is a different matter). In our school system, lunch detention is used extensively in the middle schools, and it’s strictly between the school and the kid; parents aren’t notified. I’m sure the kids prefer it that way.</p>

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<p>Tangential to the OP:</p>

<p>My S had only 20 minutes for lunch and did not fancy spending them lining up in the cafeteria for food, so he brought his own (made by yours truly–a bonus of his being in college is that I don’t have to do it any more).<br>
Low blood sugar or not, I would worry about a kid who went for 7 hours without food.</p>

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<p>some interesting points
I would agree that tardy arrivals are very disruptive- I was only surprised that it wasn’t a matter of first offense or not- but apparently everyone who wasn’t seated when the bell rang was caught.</p>

<p>I agree that it isnt far to walk 2 miles- Iwalked farther ( really!) to my high school, but then mine was an “alternative high school” in the 70s and as long as you did your contracted hours every week, it didn’t really matter what time you showed up. I didn’t walk in the dark anyway- even early in the morning.( and I didn’t have books are you kidding? watching Roots on the VCR was our social studies credit)</p>

<p>Its also a good point that as long as kids are taking care of their tardies by staying in at lunch, their parents don’t really need to be notified.</p>

<p>But I may ask- at what point they decide that the student has been caught in the “hall sweep” one too many times and decide to instill harsher punishment. If I were the parent, I probably would have wanted to have some inkling what was up.</p>

<p>I think I was reacting so strongly because she had just had a really bad weekend, and I felt bad for her- but she is much more adaptable ( most of the time) than I realize.</p>

<p>She also did get something to eat ( and I think she does have stuff in her locker-she has electrolyte drinks and protein bars for before sports) and knowing the man in charge of the lunch detention I bet that he was * very aware* how important lunch is! :D</p>

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<p>Not to hijack this thread but we are fighting with the school administration right now because my son, a senior, set his alarm for pm instead of am for day 4 of midterm exams and overslept. He arrived 1/2 way through the “exam block” as they call it. Despite have NO tardies in high school before, he was given an F for the midterm. The handbook policy states that he will have the remaining time in the “exam block” but the teacher gave a very short test and had left the classroom. The policy also refers only to Final exams, btw. My son could not find the teacher, but went to the office and was assured that he could still take the exam by one of the secretaries. When he finally found the teacher, the teacher (this is an elective and not an honors/AP course) had a fit and marched him down to the VP. My son has never been in trouble before but they are being hardasses about this. The midterm grades stand alone and are not sent to colleges, but could be seen if further information is requested. We are shocked that they would be so unreasonable. The midterms do not start at the normal time - they start at 9:30. We did not get him up before going to work (he is really not used to using the alarm clock) because we felt he was exhausted and could use the extra hour. Detention would have been welcomed - I don’t think they should be screwing with his grades that way for a one time tardiness. We have appealed to the principal (who was in on the decision) and have been told we willhave to appeal to the school committee. How ridiculous is this? I certainly expect him to be on time but this is not a pattern of irresponsibility. Anyway, I cannot stand small minded discipline at school - when the punishment is over the top - it just builds resentment and misses the mark as a learning experience.</p>

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<p>if he had missed the WHOLE test, what would the result have been? would he have been given a make-up? For intance, if you call in sick, do you need a doctors note or anything, or can you just take the test later?</p>

<p>If they give you a break for not showing up at all, while giving you an F for being late…</p>

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<p>School discipline policies should be clearly stated in the student handbook. In addition, students should never be forced to miss lunch (not eat) during a lunch detention; it seems like that would be violating some kind of law. In the school district where I work, students in lunch detention my take their lunch or have them delivered from the school cafeteria (lunch detentions are arranged in advance-never on the same day as the incident).</p>

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<p>doubleplay, my D’s private high school applied the dress code rules unfairly, as well. She never had any problems, but she & her friends sure did notice who got in trouble and who did not … and they were certain it had to do with the amount of money/influence parents had. One boy with hair touching his collar might get a detention, while another might get away with hair even longer. D appreciated her education, but she does not have good things to say about such treatment (and it extended into other areas, as well). As a result, she has vowed never to donate money (and they already ask … she just graduated in '07!).</p>

<p>I think it’s ridiculous to give a detention for a single tardy. It’s even worse if detentions are not applied fairly to all, particularly in a public school (you can leave a private if you don’t like the way things work). It is one thing to have rules that seek to encourage good behavior — and coming to class on time would definitely be in that category — but human beings do run late from time to time! I overslept once two years ago & didn’t wake up until the kids’ carpool pick-up called — it was 2 minutes AFTER I was supposed to be at school for my sub job. Fortunately, they didn’t hold a single mess-up against me. The kids thought it was pretty humorous that the sub was late!</p>

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<p>Wow. I went to a high school that was fairly free of disciplinary actions (or problems). I think they instituted detentions my senior year. My sister was a freshman the year after I graduated, and by her junior year, the school had to add extra detention sessions because the existing ones were over-flowing. They’ve eased up on detentions in hopes that it will actually improve “behavior” (i.e. serious infractions like wearing the wrong shade of blue socks), which seems to be working.</p>

<p>My mom called the office one morning to say that my sister would be arriving late due to traffic, and she was told that she had already received the max number of tardies allowed for a senior (any more and she would have had to take final exams, for which she’d otherwise be exempt). She did, however, have remaining excused absences. In other words, arriving two minutes late would have gotten her into trouble, so the administration actually encouraged her to skip her first class entirely! Now, when the woman in charge of attendance is suggesting this, there really must be a problem with the system. </p>

<p>Obviously, tardiness is disruptive, and there ought to be consequences. I’m not sure I can think up a better policy than my own school had or than some that I’ve read here, but I still can’t help rolling my eyes at some of the irony!</p>

<p>I’m glad your daughter is feeling okay about what happened. It wouldn’t have been worth her anxiety, and her “grin and bear it” attitude is a mature one.</p>

<p>ETA:

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<p>^ Reminds me of my dad, who was almost held back b/c of his terrible attendance. In the end, they decided to break district policy rather than prevent their valedictorian from graduating ;)</p>

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<p>My son got a Saturday detention when he was in High School because he went to band instead of a computer class. He had gotten permission to take band two days a week instead of three and on the other days take the computer class. He got mixed up and went to band. His teacher considered that skipping, even though the band teacher confirmed that he had been with him and son of course said he would come in after school or during his study hall and make up the work.</p>

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<p>I have always thought that after-school detention was a ridiculous penalty because its impact on different students is different.</p>

<p>For those who live within easy walking distance of the school and do not have extracurricular activities or a job right after school ends, it is such a trivial punishment that there is no incentive to avoid it. For those who live far away (especially if there is no public transportation available) and those who have ECs or jobs after school, it can cause massive inconvenience.</p>

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<p>My son had his share of detentions in high school for being tardy. He deserved them. What I did observe was it was up to the individual teacher. Some enforced the policy others did not.
The worst was when he was in 4th grade with a fairly new teacher. My son had documented attention issues along with LD and was even a resource student. The teacher would punish him for not staying focused and on task by making him stay in at recess and copy from the dictionary. Even after talking with her and the principal they didn’t get that taking recess away from a hyperactive boy was just the most ridiculous punishment and was not helping.
His Middle School had the policy for him that if he was getting restless he had permission to go out and run a lap.</p>

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<p>New version of an old blessing: May the next generation of your family live in a much more sensible school district.</p>

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<p>If school is such a good thing, the punishment for being late is missing class.</p>

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<p>Our massive school district (17 or 18 high schools?) FINALLY figured out that giving out-of-school suspensions as punishment for skipping school wasn’t an effective punishment. duh…</p>

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<p>Our hs used to give detention (1/2 hour after school) for ANY tardy that did not have a doctor’s note, funeral/religious reason, or a reason approved by a VP. A parent’s note was not good enough. Starting this year, freshmen were given ONE warning, the 2nd tardy is detention-able. However, I work at the school and if the weather is bad or there is a traffic accident, the office will announce over the PA that teacher’s should hold their attendance. They will make a 2nd announcement when teachers should submit their attendance, kids who arrive after the first announcement are not late. Also, if you are on a yellow school bus and the bus is late, you are not penalized. </p>

<p>The reason for the harsh penalty is that there are kids who will take advantage, and the school feels kids need to learn that being on time is important. I think it’s a little harsh when school starts at 7:35, and less than 1/2 of the kids drive themselves to school - they depend on their parents. Our town has no public transportation, so that’s not an issue. However, when kids know that detention is a certainty, they push the parents to get them to school on time.</p>

<p>To my knowledge, we do not do lunch detentions. Not allowing kids to eat seems like a health violation and possibly illegal. </p>

<p>My son graduated last year, in his 4 years he only got 2 detentions - both for tardies, and both were my fault. But he and I agreed it wasn’t worth complaining about, it was just easier for him to sit and do his homework for 30 minutes at detention.</p>

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<p>Are you sure she was denied lunch? In every case I know, schools that have lunch detention allow the students to eat their lunch, they just can’t sit in the cafeteria with the general student body.</p>

<p>The “punishment” does not involve starvation but rather a denial of the social aspects of lunch.</p>

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<p>At my daughter’s former high school (Abington High School in Abington PA), the rule was that if you came to school late you got a detention unless excused by a Dr’s note. 3 detentions for lateness resulted in a 3 day suspension. At a PTO meeting, I asked the principal to explain the rationale for the rule and his explanation was that too many kids were arriving a few minutes late due to stopping to get coffee on the way in for a 7:40 start time. (Who would have thought that high school kids who were pushed by the school to have extracurricular activities and stayed up until 1:00 am finishing homework would need something to jolt them awake after getting up at 6:30 am to make it to school.) I asked him how he would deal with the kid who is not late due to a “coffee run” but is either not feeling well in the morning or something of a compelling and mitigating nature occurred through no fault of the student and whether the school would accept a parent’s note explaining the circumstances. He said that a parents note would not be grounds to excuse the lateness. (Our district takes great pride in its well publicized school/parent partnership which apparently exists for media purposes only or only for those parents who have the time to constantly volunteer and kiss the admins rear ends.)</p>

<p>We then proceeded to have a riotous discussion well demonstrating the moronic logic of the administration’s thought process. It was pointed out that very often a kid can wake up feeling sick or under the weather and after a bit feel better and want to go to school. Nope, without a Dr’s note it would be an unexcused lateness subject to sanctions. But if the kid stayed home all day, a parent’s note would excuse the absence. A question was asked whether the application of the lateness policy in all circumstances was promoting avoidable absences and the principal began foaming at the mouth over the audacity of a parent to question his judgement. I pointed out to him that requiring a Dr’s note for any lateness that was illness related was an absurdity since no parent calls or takes a kid to the Dr for every minor illness or upset. He was unmoved.</p>

<p>So I then posed a question. What if my daughter (who was an all AP/ Honors 4.0 student but was totally fed up with high school) had severe menstrual cramps in the morning but about an hour later felt up to going to school. I noted that that was not something you would normally call a Dr about and asked if she could she come in with a note from a parent. Well, the principal became apoplectic that I would discuss publicly my daughter’s menstrual cycle and sputtered that if she had some type of chronic condition she should get a Dr’s note. So that’s what we did - we got a note from my sister-in-law, who is an ob/gyn, stating that my daughter routinely had severe menstrual cramps and that her latenesses were therefore due to medical reasons. My daughter used the note well to her advantage for the remainder of her senior year. Somehow, the principal never caught on or dared to question how my daughter’s cycle seemed to have no rhyme or reason and appeared to occur at varying times in a month and sometimes 2 or 3 times a month.</p>