I’ve know students who’ve done this at other schools and one bonus is that it also makes a big school smaller. Very positive feedback about social connections, the general experiences etc. what a bonus that FSU gives you this opportunity and gives you instate tuition rates after!
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I want to bring up one other point.
There are three schools that are dead on subs - from feel to strengths in many ways and more.
UF, UGA and Alabama.
Now, UF is highest ranked. UF and UGA are pretty much equal in selectivity. When I say Bama is a sub - in so many ways it’s the same - but selectivity wise it’s not. Yet they have zillions of smart kids because they buy them in. Yours would be $25K.
UF may not be $45K when your kid applies - and UGA right now is $44K direct costs. It may be $45K + by the time you go. Some get a half OOS or full (but more half) scholarship - which is worth - let’s say $10K - which makes it a worthwhile app.
Now you’ve already said your student won’t touch Alabama but they are basically the same school. And Tallahassee (FSU) btw - is not really different than Alabama - environment wise as a city/area. It’s the “redneck” part of the state.
But let me throw one thing at you - geographic diversity.
UF - the state of Florida requires it state schools - they are looking to get to 95% in state students. That’s like NY - which very much lacks geographic diversity. Now, UF might be more diverse - this is the state as a whole - but you will find less and less OOS kids - does that matter?
UGA - has a silent cap - they are trying to admit more instate although I think they are about 20%.
The student doesn’t want Bama - I get it. But they are loaded with smart, OOS students - because they buy them in. So think about this:
- It’s assured to hit $45K - it will be $25K ish with auto merit at $28K off.
- Subjective - but a nicer campus than the other two although UGA is very nice (humongous) and well, UF most think is nice. I’m partial to FSU over it - but it’s similar to UGA/Bama
- Bama has 1100+ from CA, near 400 from CO, 1600+ from FL, 2600+ from GA, 1500+ from Illinois, 400 each from MA, MD, MI, near 2K from NY/NJ/CT, and near 2000 from Texas.
So you have an assured admit that crushes the budget - that is really in feel no different than UF and UGA - but I often wonder about, especially at the Florida schools (and SUNY), how OOS kids from far away cope with families being so close so kids can get easily home whether for a weekend or holiday when they have no one nearby.
I’m not saying it’s your kid - but rather than have preconceived notions - being at a geographically diverse school might be better for someone coming from so far away. Certainly something to think about in my opinion.
As far as academicky goes, with Blount Scholars, Randall Research Scholars and the overall Honors program with a lot of enrichment for those who want it, there’s plenty of academicky - as there is at other schools.
Yes, kids get an idea in their mind and won’t bend but perhaps you can show some of the facts - because it gives you a definite and it’s more similar in that kids can’t simply go home. Much of UGA, for example, goes home to Atlanta on the weekends - I’ve learned from work friends and kids we stopped on campus.
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Honestly, it comes down to being near family for her..I said there’s no rhyme or reason but there’s definitely a theme..she has family and old friends in Florida, Georgia, and SC and she’s lived in two of them. I would worry about somewhere far with no family around to make her feel anchored, especially after I started noticing the family pattern in her schools of interest. It seems like she doesn’t want to be near us, just near someone familiar.
I think a lot of kids thrive far away with no family around. But I hear of lonely kids or fish out of water too. The kid leading our Fordham tour had transferred from South Carolina because he wanted to be back in the Northeast. I’m glad my daughter is self aware enough to know what she needs in this case. I’ll probably take Vanderbilt and wash u of the extreme reach list because she would have no one around.
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Many kids absolutely get homesick (maybe most) so that is a nice perk - as a just in case - I get it.
It is great that she knows her concerns.
Does she have an area of study?
Other Hail Mary’s to look at - back to your original thesis:
Good luck
BC and the Gabelli Scholarship
UGA Foundation Scholarship
U of Rochester Handler Scholarship
Providence Roddy Scholarship - if pre med
NC State Parks Scholarship
UNC Charlotte - Safety but the Levine Scholarship
Rollins College - Alfond - mentioned earlier - but likely too small
Fordham - various
St. Lawrence (too small) Trustee tuition scholarship
Syracuse Coronat
Agnes Scott - Marvin Perry Scholars - school is small and all female but in an consortium with other Atlanta schools including Emory and Ga Tech. This is a full ride.
Speaking of Atlanta and the consortium, Ogelthorpe - too small - but will match CU tuition.
Davidson - Belk
Furman - Ogelthorpe (full tuition)
W&L Johnson
Wofford - small but has the Richardson full ride
Clark - has scholarships - could beat price.
Villanova - Presidential Scholars
Lafayette - Marquis full tuition
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I feel that wanting family/friends fairly close is a perfectly good reason for choosing a school, and it is a plus that she has the foresight to understand that this is important to her.
With that in mind, I see this as an opportunity to further narrow down your list of schools (there have been a lot mentioned here). The down side here is that she might not be able to cast as wide a net, which is important when seeking significant merit.
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Yeah, it’s nice to narrow it down. She’s got family in a lot of places so there are still plenty of merit chasing opportunities across the entire eastern seaboard.
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This is a great list. Thank you!
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Not sure if MD is on the list. If it is, Salisbury is a midsize regional but a known name and will be $30k-ish with auto merit, assuming today’s costs.
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I think that if your DD absolutely loves one or two of those low probability merit schools (Vandy?) and is realistic about the odds and the outcome (can’t attend) if she doesn’t get merit, she should apply if she’s up for it.
After all, someone will get that merit scholarship, and she’ll have thrown her hat in the ring. This assumes, of course, that she has the emotional capacity for the more likely outcome of not being accepted or being accepted without merit.
There are many instances of kids getting a surprise acceptance or scholarship at a very selective school after being turned down by places they saw as more likely, and that seems like an indication that they somehow were what that school was looking for as much as they weren’t what the others wanted. This is the part that nobody can predict in advance.
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It’s truly like buying a lottery ticket but the price of the ticket is writing an essay or two.
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Extreme long shot to no chance at all may be a reasonable assessment, but it depends upon the selection criteria. Assuming that her stats (GPA & standardized test scores) qualify, then typical considerations are diversity, leadership, public service/community service, evidence of intellectual curiosity, and scholarship essays. Some top scholarships require an interview.
Just as a note: The University of Alabama undergraduate student body is composed of more non-residents (almost 60%) than residents of Alabama. Lots of kids from California and other non-Southern states.
A major scholarship from the University of Georgia might be difficult as Georgia is moving toward admitting fewer non-residents.
P.S. Not sure if still accurate: When ours was being recruited by U Alabama, the then university President stressed that UA’s largest alumni group was based in New York City.
In terms of pacing and adding additional reach schools, I’d pay careful attention to the essay prompts. Below is an excerpt of my general advice on some pragmatics of applying to a large number of colleges.
Some schools, like U. of Chicago, have very individualized writing prompts that won’t be like any other school’s. So adding an application to U. of Chicago (which is not on your D’s list and I’m not suggesting it should be) would be a lot of extra work, whereas a similarly rejective school that has prompts with more essay crossover might be very little work.
Additionally in creating any college list, I would pay very careful attention to my kid’s mental makeup. For some kids, rejection is like a fuel that makes them want to be even more amazing wherever they land. For kids like that, it can be fine to have a number of reaches where rejection is probable (like it is at any school with a sub-20% acceptance rate). But for other kids, rejection can be a big emotional and mental blow, and receiving a number of them near the end of the timeline when schools make their decisions can be a lot to handle. It can also influence their perception of the schools that they’ve already been accepted to (as in, those other options can’t be that good if they accepted me when all these other schools didn’t). So I would never have more reaches on my list than I think my kid can healthily handle a rejection from (and also realizing that targets can also result in rejections…targets are NOT safeties).
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Great post.
In my area, there are several private HS’s which have a reputation for “being exceptional” in college admissions. I know faculty, staff, and parents (and former parents- lots of them) at these places, and I don’t contradict local folks when they marvel at how great these schools are at admissions.
What these schools are exceptional at is guiding student and parent expectations. Kid loves Dartmouth, has been living and breathing Dartmouth since she was ten years old…. Guidance counselors know she’s not getting into Dartmouth, so the "go research” list is all about cold, rural, close to skiing schools that are not has hard to get into as Dartmouth. Kid happily goes off to her “first choice” college and everyone is pleased. Repeat this process over the entire senior class, and the perception is well grounded that this HS punches above its weight in college admissions- even though what it really does is protect students from multiple disappointments all stacked up. Or the slow trickle of disappointments starting in December and concluding in April as the kid trudges off to a fantastic college as if it were a four year sentence in a federal penitentiary.
OP- you know your kid, we don’t. Some kids bounce back from disappointment- “their loss”. Others view it as a commentary on their worth (and there are hundreds of threads on CC as a testament to that worldview). And others find it hard to pivot from “I love Dartmouth so much, why did they reject me?” to “I’m going to have a blast at UVM and the bike path around the lake is so cool”. YMMV.
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love the four year sentence in a federal penitentiary! Hopefully it won’t come to that. Pretty sure see sees any school on the East coast as manageable. I on the other hand would rather pay 45k a year for a school that will be a great fit than a school that’s meh and might not be that good for her.
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Here is what I would do (to answer your original question).
I would make sure there are 2 affordable safeties.
I would prioritize schools that are more realistic for huge merit (Eg maybe Furman, U of South Carolina for example). I would bulk up this list, given the need for merit. Maybe take a look at Pitt - not sure about their large awards these days. Maybe Ithaca?
I would pick a few super competitive high reach merit awards, but this would not be the bulk. Schools from your OP such as Fordham, Miami, Emory. Maybe apply to Oxford at Emory.
I would only include Vandy, UNC and Wash U if your daughter has the stamina for all of these essays. Even those with high energy begin to lose it.
My daughter applied to 12 schools and had well over 20 essays. She was accepted to a great safety in October- full tuition to Pitt (not sure if they still do it). She researched every school’s essay prompts in early July and figured she could tweak if necessary. Every day after work (summer) from 5-8 pm she sat and wrote her essays. She was fine until the very end, which was when she did Vandy’s merit award essay. I knew it was not as good as the others…not even close…but I kept my mouth shut since this was the last essay and I saw how tired she was getting. Everybody has limits.
The number of schools on the list depends on your daughter. Keep in mind the competition and amazing kids out there. Mine had the same ACT as yours with the equivalent SAT, and graduated at the top of her class. Her AP physics teacher wrote that she was the best student he had in all of his 20 years of teaching (sorry to sound braggy and very annoying, just trying to put things in context). The letter was not based purely on academics, but also on leadership, class discussions, etc. She was waitlisted to Vanderbilt. How could that be? Because when you look at Vanderbilt, my kid was an average kid there. Very average. Nothing special. That’s how. Even with state awards, big leadership, blah blah blah. Turned out that Vandy started taking kids from our HS only if they ED’d. She was accepted to Emory with no merit (did not attend).
So, with that in mind, I would prioritize the merit schools that are more realistic for your amazing daughter, and add the others if her stamina and rejection tolerance allow for it. Now…if she wants to try those schools first and save the “lower” schools for later, that’s on her.
It’s not easy when there is a budget (we had one as well). Good luck- she sounds amazing and will land someplace great!
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I agree with keeping expectations in check. A couple of additional thoughts: 1) google college buyers and sellers and you will end up on a website where you can get a list of buyers. 2) the theme through most of the scholarship applications was supporting diversity, and this in line with most strategic plans that seek to increase diversity. Might be worth reading strategic plans before this summer?
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This is so helpful to hear how it all panned out for her with the process. How ideal to have a great plan in place in October so that anything after that was totally optional.
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Yeah, we plan to build her targets around buyers only. For the merit scholarships I’ve noticed at sellers, they are all about excellence and making amazing contributions to the school community, not really about diversity. But I haven’t looked at that many other than Vanderbilt, Wash U, and Emory.
Diversity essays were included in all of my daughter’s grad school applications. She realized that diversity did not have to mean that she is diverse or comes from an underrepresented background.
Diversity can be a lot of things: what makes you unique, how would your distinctive skills contribute to the field, have you ever advocated for somebody, demonstrated a devotion to inclusion, do you teach people who are disabled how to mountain climb, have you advocated for a student from a different background, etc.
An essay about making amazing contributions to the campus community can be surprisingly similar to an essay about diversity.
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It might not be what she wants geographically, and it’s not a reach, but what about Kansas? I’m also in Colorado (and also have a band kid), and a lot of our music/band kids end up there because they’re generous with OOS merit aid have a great music program, in addition to strong academics across the board. Lawrence is also a great college town with lots to do. The location might be a non-starter, but it’s on par with many schools you’re considering and likely to offer merit, so I thought I’d toss it in the ring.
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