Bringing us back to the thread subject.
A question…if a college is truly a financial reach with no chance of it being financially approachable, why would a family let their student apply?
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I think that the schools on the list have large merit. I don’t see any that do not (?).
Ah…I see that now more clearly.
This is a strong student. If they are trying to cull their list, they should start looking at things they do NOT like about the colleges. And just remove those. Keep the competitive merit schools where the student would be the happiest to attend.
They are asking about home runs - so for example, their budget is $45K but they are full pay, but the Johnson at W&L is that home run. Or the Cornelius Vanderbilt at Vandy or Woodruff at Emory, etc.
It sort of morphed into schools that could achieve $45K. Or less “prestigious” schools that also have full rides or big $$ programs - whether C of C (like mine) or East Carolina or UNCC - or those that would hit $45K even full pay (FSU) or lots in NC like App State and UNCW, etc.
But I think the premise from the first post was those schools that are high ranked that you can’t afford - short of winning the lotto for those hard to get, very competitive merit.
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$45K is a tough cut-off point. We also wanted that for our D25 and very happily managed, but it is definitely an uphill battle.
She was high stats, 4.0, great ECs with many awards, valedictorian, NMS, lots of leadership, etc. She got a lot of merit at every school she applied to, other than UNC (accepted, but no merit which is to be expected). Between her and a very close friend with very similar stats, the only schools that came in under $45 were:
Our local state school
St. Olaf
College of Wooster
University of Denver
University of Arizona
University of Puget Sound
Bryn Mawr merit brought it down to about $53. Everything else, after merit scholarships, was in the high $50 to low $60s (UNC, William and Mary (Monroe Scholar), Oberlin, Louis and Clark, Santa Clara, Grinnell, Case Western).
Probably the best bet is to focus on 5-6 schools that there is a real chance of reaching $45 with their USUAL/EXPECTED for your kid merit. Then add in 3-4 that have a separate-application full-ride scholarship. I wouldn’t waste time with any that fall in the $55-$65 range with expected merit and that don’t have hail-mary full ride options. And I definitely would recommend against applying to 15+ schools.
[Adding - a few she didn’t apply to but likely would have reached the $45 range based on her high-stats friends’ personal experiences - Illinois Wesleyan, Gustavus Adolphus, Kalamazoo, Bennington, Lawrence]
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The only schools that came under were six 
I remember - and yours did really well - and really gelled with one as I recall (St. Olaf)….so it worked, your process!!!
Yes, there’s definitely a list of under 45s - you mentioned some below - I’d add Susquehanna, Rhodes, Furman, Washington College….of course, as you get to some of these “2nd/3rd tier names” - the student body is more local - if that’s a concern.And tons of publics mentioned above in previous messages. Plus schools like C Michigan, Southern Illinois, etc.
I don’t think there’s an issue finding under $45K…..but when people set up geographic limitations, it makes it tougher - but in this student’s case, even with those limitations, there will be many schools to fit the bill. But there may not be many “high pedigree” schools with a hail mary scholarship the student will win - which was the original thesis of the thread.
But to your point, some, like a UNC, wouldn’t work for this student (no financial need) unless they got the MC scholarship (HS needs to nominate you I believe). So schools like it and UVA and even W&M won’t work (even with new W&M merit). But those schools do have Hail Mary scholarships - but likely would be harder to get than a Hail Mary at E Carolina, UNCC, College of Charleston, etc - as they have them too. I don’t know they’d be harder - I know at those less prestigious schools they are hard too but are they less difficult to get or equally - I don’t know - but I would say that Hail Mary scholarships aren’t only offered at the creme de la creme schools of perceived prestige.
UNC no longer needs a nomination by the HS, but winning these awards, especially for an OOS student, is a huge long shot.
I would put the bulk of the work into more realistic merit awards.
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Another very important, though slightly tangential, thing to consider. Start preparing your kiddo now for the frustration/disappointment etc. of the “chasing merit” approach to college application. High stats kids will undoubtedly have academic peers, many of whom they “outcompeted” in high school, who get to go to prestigious schools because their parents make less (or occasionally significantly more) money. It is very hard to get super excited about, e.g., The University of Denver when the kid you outperformed in school gets to go to Williams. It is hard even as a parent with all of our years of insight and ability to understand the benefits of being a big fish in a small pond, etc. Every very high stats / non-need kid I know went through a challenging time with it, and the earlier you can get started on that mourning process, the better.
I recognize it is a privilege and tone-deaf statement, since there are so very many things that kids with higher income get in life that aren’t available otherwise, but it does definitely feel like a “loss” when they understand that almost all the prestigious college options are just not available.
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I think you are right in substance, but a reframing is in order. Everyone could go through life bent out of shape because someone is always richer, thinner, has better toys. Emphasizing how fantastic a kid’s rock solid safety is (affordable, sure to be admitted) is a good start. We made our kids make a list of the positives of even the “I’ll be so sad if I end up here” schools and with some effort- they did. It meant spending MORE time on those visits- not less (I know CC likes the “drive by” visit but we found those not helpful). Arts and Sciences library has the original, itemized list of what was in President Lincoln’s bedroom when he was assassinated? And anyone can view it wearing special cotton gloves and a face mask? Sciences library has a weekly maker-space event where engineering professors architecture grad students and local plumbers, welders, etc. preside and they’ll help you concoct an oven which runs on potato peels or a bicycle which powers a counter-top dishwasher?
Help your kids avoid the problem from the git-go by making them identify the things to love about the safeties!!!
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I understand the need to manage the social aspects of all this, but I also think kids should be very proud of big merit offers. Years later, a lot of young adults end up regretting how much they spent on college, not least if they and/or their families had to borrow a lot. And turning your hard work through HS into a big pile of cold, hard cash is a great result in that context.
And yes, other kids in HS may lack the life experience necessary to really understand the value of that. But when some young adults are still paying student loans, taking jobs they don’t really like, and so on, while others are getting started on the careers they really want, and beginning to save for a house, or an early retirement, or so on . . . it will start becoming very clear.
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This is 100% true. For sure it is important to acknowledge the awesomeness of paying $45K to go to college vs. $90K and going into no or little debt. But it is also still a real emotion to process knowing you are paying $45 for Kalamazoo while your equivalently ranked classmate is paying $45 for Duke.
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How on earth does a kid know what a classmate is paying?
We were the slobs in the neighborhood- old cars, etc. We were full pay (aggressive savers for college since birth) and our kids NEVER talked about it, ever. There were adults who knew or assumed (they knew the jobs we had, and knew we could afford to splash out if we wanted to) and they would constantly say the whole “only an idiot pays for college, your kid could get a free ride at XYZ” which we politely ignored.
I am astonished that a kid would even volunteer what their need, merit, need packaged with merit, etc. award would be. One of my kids won a competitive something or other– in past years, it would make it into the local paper, but this year it did not (and did not for the next three years when we’d been told “we’re awarding the scholarship again because nobody else met the criteria”.
Why are kids discussing this with classmates? It’s one thing to say “If I don’t get lucky I won’t be going to Wash U”. But the specifics of how much luck would be involved? Yikes
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I again acknowledge that HS kids may compare results in unfortunate ways, but I guess my point was there is a distinction between a college giving your parents $200K in need aid over four years because they can’t afford more, and you EARNING $200K in merit aid through your own hard work. And an unkind peer might assert they could have earned that if they wanted to, but then you can with equal plausibility assert you could have earned admissions elsewhere too. The point being these really are equivalent achievements, so no one has superior bragging rights.
All these discussion has been great. I particularly like hearing how peoples’ kids ended up handling the application process and how much effort they put into the lotto-type financial reaches. It helped me come up with a plan for my daughter’s application process. Here’s what I came up with:
(1) Apply to all targets and safeties by October 15th (early action wherever available).
(2) Once those 8 to 12 school apps are in, then I’m going to give he a list of extreme reaches with at least a tiny chance of full tuition scholarships and have her rank them in the order of preference.
(3) Starting in mid-october, she can apply to the extreme reaches in the order she ranked them, stopping when she runs out of steam*
*Alternatively, if she decides she is happy with her targets and safeties, she can skip this part of the process entirely and enjoy herself.
For anyone out there reading these in a similar situation, I really recommend giving your student a $number$ you are willing to pay for college early. We did this when she was just starting high school because unfortunately, my brother and mother kept telling her (to be encouraging? complimentary?) that she should “shoot for the stars” and “apply to Yale” and “Your parents can afford it!” After giving them both a stern talking to, we explained to our daughter how college finances and why some (people with lower incomes or people with parents that have reciprocity from working in academia) can shoot for highly selective schools and potentially afford it. She was mostly set on going out of state and not obsessed with prestige, thankfully. So in sophomore year, we had more detailed conversations with her about viable options and what our COA threshold is. She got upset during some of these discussions, especially when we made clear that going out of state would require great grades and that if she didn’t get offers for 45k or less, she’d have to go in-state (“THEN I’M NOT GOING TO COLLEGE!!”) 
All this to say, it has sunk in for her. She’s done well and we’re confident she’ll be able to go out of state, which makes her happy. Her narrow focus on “NYC” (which isn’t a school last I checked) has broadened to include so many great options near family. I just want to make it through the next year without too much stress, but also encourage her to throw her hat in the ring if she wants to. She knows if she doesn’t get a full ride to Vandy or Emory or something like that, it’s random and would not feel discouraged, as long as she has good options otherwise. And I’m sure she’d enjoy the bragging rights if she were she able to get admitted to a selective school, even if it’s too expensive to attend.
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I would say that discussing money is cultural and not as taboo for everyone. I also think these realities are important for kids to understand. By discussing our finances (even sometimes in relation to other people), it’s actually made my daughter more mature and practical. She understands that her situation is way better than most, even if it can be a little frustrating that her friend with hippy parents that live off the grid and make very little money (thanks to help from grandparents) gets to go to a fancy SLAC for next to nothing. That’s just life. And she knows that overall, she’s really really lucky.
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This is fine - but if you know the home run scholarships up front, I’d write them down now and check each for dates. October 15th is likely ok - but after she gets the for sure $45K ones and could be $45K ones in, she’ll probably want a breather - and you don’t want to find out later - oh, we missed that one. It had a 10/15 deadline.
So identify those scholarships up front - so you don’t miss a deadline.
Also, some won’t have an extra app per se. If you’ stand out amongst the crowd, you’ll get “invited”. At my daughter’s school, College of Charleston, they came from the Honors College apps - so for some you won’t know and you just have to hope you are picked for the interview weekend whereas at W&L, as an example, it does have an essay (and date). And at some, like W&L - they have additional scholarships - for example, if you are Jewish, they have one for you that yep, requires another essay on top of Johnson.
So your strategy is fine - but I would simply identify those that require extra work or an apply by that you’re interested in so that you know in advance - just in case those deadlines don’t agree with your pre determined strategy, so you can plan for them as needed.
Best of luck to your student.
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Please check the application deadlines for merit scholarships. Some are pretty early. You don’t want your daughter to miss any of these deadlines…and some will happen during EA application time.
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I discussed money with my OWN kids all the time- and at a much more granular level than most people do from what I gather. It’s kids discussing it with their classmates that surprises me. Kids can observe their friends lifestyles, but to compare notes on who is paying what for which college is surprising.
And not all of those hippy parents are living off a family trust. Some of them sold a cardiac device they developed (while an undergrad studying robotics) and after sharing the profits with their university (who gets a cut of intellectual property), the three professors involved, and the VC firm who backed them– retired at 35 to paint, bake sourdough bread, and raise dogs. I know a guy like this. If he weren’t so darned kind and nice and “give back” he would be insufferable. Wife is a lawyer who defends abused kids who were in foster care. She told me it’s less than minimum wage once you calculate it.
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The ones on her list all have deadlines between November 1st and early January. And I moved Fordham into the Target category to make sure that one gets done before mid-October because I know it’s one of her favorites.
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For competitive merit scholarship consideration? Just make sure.
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