<p>Hmmmm…jamimom. I wonder if there are different “deans on duty” at different times and I got lucky. Or specialists on different topics and I got lucky again. Whatever, she has been invaluable, more for my grandS than S, but helpful in both.</p>
<p>Thanks, jmmom, I have asked questions for the “dean” and we’ll see if I get an answer.</p>
<p>There is no “free ride” in this society today. I feel you get what you pay for.</p>
<p>Sweet Dreams
i agree with you. I wish we were in the situation of choosing Berkeley for free or Columbia for $170,000+. I have no doubt that we would go for Berkeley.</p>
<p>How long will it take for a student to recover the $170000 (posttax), and more like $220,000 pretax. Worst-case scenario=forever.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, my D has to choose between UChicago($170000) and Rutgers ($0).
We will wait and see what else comes in the mail in April.</p>
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<p>Hi usmomminuk … good luck with your search … for me there is another reason, and it is the main reason, I want my kids to go to the “best” school at which they feel a good fit and feel they will do well … the academic caliber of their classmates on a whole will be higher at “better” schools … and I believe the cohort group is a huge player in the book learning, life learning, and life experience at college. UMass (our local school) is a fine school and kids can get a great education there but I believe the experience can be even stronger at a school where the student population is academically stronger. How much should be paid for that difference? … that’s a tough question … for my wife and I the answer is a lot … but we certainly understand differing opinions on that one!</p>
<p>Mensa160, that is true, you do get what you pay for. However the cost is often not measured in dollars and cents. This is particularly true of education. A perfect example is our President, and I do not want to have this devolve into a political debate. I am only trying to illustrate my point. Here is a person educated at Andover, Yale and Harvard, but I suspect that most people would not consider him a well read or educated person.</p>
<p>I contend that the cost one pays in order to become an educated person involves ones desire to learn and willingness to spend countless hours working toward that end. It involves the curiosity to venture beyond the course syllabus and college degree requirements. It entails the creative choice of electives. It depends on professors who can teach and inspire you. </p>
<p>None of these can be purchased in the common sense. And it is important to understand that the purpose of an education is not to help a student to earn a living but to teach that student how to live.</p>
<p>While I would not discourage any student from attending a “prestigous” college, I would also not delude that student into believing that attending would grarantee a superior education.</p>
<p>chocoholic - Uchicago is my first choice, but i think i’ll probably end up at Berkeley–I’m making peace with it…</p>
<p>My S estimates, now that he’s finally thinking about it, that the “prestigious” school he’s been accepted to will cost him roughly $280,000 (after tax) more than the state school down the road that’s in the top 10 in his major. That’s noting the differences in costs and scholarships and the salary lost because the more prestigious school won’t accept all his college transfer hours. Starting salaries for new graduates are nearly identical, which is interesting given the differences in the cost of living. There are other downsides to either school, of course.</p>
<p>Are you sure you always get what you pay for?</p>
<p>Let’s face it folks, different people want different things from an education. Charlesives, you’ve articulated what you’re looking for, but don’t assume everyone shares your beliefs. I recently worked on a case that involved many Asian families. I got a first hand look at what they want for their children in an education. I know what the blacks in the projects I came from want, and what my neighbors in an upscale LA suburb want–all very different things. There is no doubt that there are whole industries you have little chance of being hired by if you do not go to a prestigous college. Studies have shown employeers in general are biased towards grads of prestigous schools. This is especially true among Asians and in the North East. People value the alumni networks at top schools for the internships and other opportunities they facilitate. Connecting with the future leaders of this Country is way more likely to happen at a top private school. And so on.</p>
<p>To presume that superior education is the goal of most is naive.</p>
<p>SweetDream
I cannot imagine that you would regret going to Berkeley. It is definitely not to be sneezes at.
btw, what if you get offered a Merit Scholarship at Chicago. Would that tip the applecart?</p>
<p>Strick, I think that anyone with very specific career goals especially in technical fields is wise to check into schools that are tops in those fields. Changing majors is so common, but some kids are very set on technical tracks. Or other things, like in art-related fields for instance.
As far as the college credits, at the most selective schools, so very many of the students have had advanced and college credit courses. Usually kids are taking the most rigorous courses they can because they want the challenge, they want to learn, and they’ve maxed out the courses at their high schools in those areas. If all of these course credits were allowed, the selective colleges might be able to become 3-year instead of four-year colleges (or 3 1/2?!), and in fact even though advanced standing may be allowed, many if not most kids choose to waive it and learn as much as they can. Plus, it’s hard to fit in all of the courses they’d like to take as it is. But that’s the level that many kids have reached even before college–it’s enough to get through a lot of schools in less time, but at the most selective schools, a lot of your peers have done the same thing.</p>
<p>Mensa160, “You get what you pay for” is not always true. Or, put it this way: it’s often true when comparing items from the low to the middle end of the range but not true nearly so often though it still may be true in comparing items from the middle to the top of the range. I don’t care whether it’s jeans, shirts, cars, stereo equipment, housing…and from this list I suspect it would apply to colleges as well. There are mediocre but expensive LAC’s that I wouldn’t take for an instant over a good state school. </p>
<p>Chocoholic’s D having to choose between Chicago for $170K and Rutgers for $0 is excruciating, imo. Berkeley vs. Chicago is less excruciating but still uncomfortable…all imo. (Okay, we all have our biases and Chicago is very high on my list of universities for the right student…hard to give up something valued so highly as Top 5 on one’s own scorecard.)</p>
<p>I understand, both points, cricket. That’s why I agree with TheDad’s point that you have to look at on a case by case basis. In my S’s case, both schools also have excellent business schools (his second choice) and he’s got two years college credit, mostly intense honors classes from a well acredited school. </p>
<p>The challenge was the important part in that last part, but it’s also an opportunity he’s suddenly realized that he needs to consider exploiting. In his case, why not finish early at the less expensive, but well regarded school and spend a year or so in a prestigious graduate school, especially when the alternative is two much more expensive years as an undergraduate?</p>
<p>Strick, you don’t always get what you pay for. Nor is a “deal” always a deal. Choosing a place where your sudent is going to pretty much grow up, his second home is really a holistic, fuzzy process that cannot always be laid out in terms of cost. Most of the time the way it works, is that it is worth it, if that is your preconceived notion. Someone who is “Berkeley all the way”, is not likely to believe that U of Chicago is worth it. Someone who has always harbored Harvard dreams is going to feel it is every bit worth it over a free ride anywhere. And they could both be wrong—or right. It is the fit with the student involved that makes it right. I am sure the family whose daughter killed herself at MIT does not feel that was the best choice for her, an extreme, tragic case, but it does happen at some of the top schools as well as free choices. </p>
<p>Fortunately, most kids are pretty resilient and end up enjoying whereever they end up going. If they do not like it, and you have a support system in place, it could be easily rectified. The horror stories are few, and exist in any situation not just college placement.</p>
<p>We don’t have much to disagree on, jamimom. The only thing would be if those folks who were dead set on attending a particular college hadn’t been paying attention to how college costs have been rising and didn’t anticipate what it was going to cost. Not everyone is as well educated on that side of things as the people here.</p>
<p>I’m first of my family to graduate from college, so I understand its value. Thing is, I’m not convinced that attending XYZ University is automatically going to open doors for everyone. There’s no magic bullet, not even education or the possiblity of making connections.</p>
<p>We spent years teaching my boys how to stand on their own two feet. They know that a owning particular car or watch or Tee shirt doesn’t make you a better person. The oldest got stars in his eyes for a bit there, but when he saw the bill, he began to wonder exactly what he was paying for. He may still go to what was his first choice, but I suspect only if he thinks it’s the right choice financially as well as educationally. Not a bad result even if he’s made a mistake or two getting to this point.</p>
<p>My D is very understanding of the big bucks we are talking about, and is also the kind of person who would not be unhappy anywhere. (btw her parents arrived at Universities in the U.S. off an airplane, having seen or heard nothing, and not even having the benefit of CC :)</p>
<p>She has even suggested doing 1 year at R, and then transferring to Chicago, if they were to agree. But I don’t know what kind of a risk that may be.</p>
<p>I cannot imagine choosing Rutgers over Chicago, even though my H’s company hires mostly from CMU and Rutgers. So…we shall wait until April. In the meanwhile, no movies, pizza, or new clothes.</p>
<p>And the 2 siblings can just go to Plumbing-academy.</p>
<p>Strick, yup, I agree with you and TheDad and all others who consider on a case by case basis. So many different people…so many different schools. Some of these choices are agonizing especially when good arguments can be made for going either way, and then there is your “gut feeling” … sometimes you end up going with that. But choose and don’t look back. As Jamimom says, you can always change if things don’t work out.</p>
<p>Whew! Time to start a new one if someone wants to keep this going!</p>