Did the Dean of Admissions cross boundaries or I'm too strict?

<p>I submit the following:</p>

<p>Two students submit goofy, off-the-wall essays about oddball topics.</p>

<p>One of them is told, “That’s really stupid!” and becomes indignant, challenging the critic to do any better.</p>

<p>The other is told, “That’s really stupid!” and replies, “Ha ha, I know, isn’t it?”</p>

<p>Chicago seeks to reject the former and to accept the latter, and believes they can tell the difference. And, if the essay is well-written, they can. If it’s not well-written, then it doesn’t matter anyway.</p>

<p>Re: post# 540:
At least half of my posts in this thread were attempts to correct your incorrect comments, accusations or statements you falsely attributed to me, mummom!!</p>

<p>I think we ought to acknowledge a couple things here. First, Chicago does NOT want only butter-pecan lovers. </p>

<p>More importantly, however, for all of the recent past, maybe up until this year, admissions at Chicago and admissions at Yale and Harvard were very different beasts. Yale and Harvard do NOT require applicants to do a lot of custom work to apply there. Their attitude, I think, is a combination of “We’re probably going to reject you anyway, so we’re not going to make you do backflips before we do” and “We’re only going to accept students who are practically perfect in every way, and the standard application materials are fine for telling if a student is practically perfect in every way.”</p>

<p>Chicago has to accept roughly twice the number of students Yale or Harvard does (maybe three times as many, if you adjust for the athletes and legacies), and from a much smaller applicant pool – still, and certainly in the recent past. It has never had the luxury of simply throwing out the imperfect applicants. It has relied a lot on essays as a selection method because it has had to/wanted to take more risks in order to assemble a student body the faculty liked (understanding, of course, that its non-risky picks might well be headed to Yale or Harvard anyway). And the essays were, and remain, a good basis on which to make that kind of bet. Furthermore, while Yale and Harvard can select a perfectly good class by saying no more than “Write something interesting” – after all, if they need more help than that to write something interesting they aren’t practically perfect in every way – Chicago’s experience has probably been that, without some additional help, its applicant pool did not produce enough essays of earth-shattering brilliance to fill all the necessary slots. </p>

<p>Finally, Yale and Harvard have the benefit of awesome brands and hundreds of impressions left by popular culture. Forget US News, how much do you think years of promotion on Gilmore Girls is worth? Everyone else is stuck trying to come up with some marketing program to get people to pay attention, especially Chicago, which, between its “bad” neighborhood and fun/die reputation did not find itself near the top of that many high school students’ lists. For better or worse, the annual essay prompts have become one of the most effective ways for Chicago to distinguish itself at the high school level. When you market like that, you are always going to turn some people off – WashU, in a roughly similar boat, but with a slightly different approach, certainly does. In the end, I doubt the people at Chicago should care if they turned off a student who was going to get into Yale, because that student was NOT likely going to be coming to Chicago in any event. I’m sure they turn off people they would like to apply, too, but I think the evidence suggests that, at least so far, they have done a pretty good job of getting students to pay attention, and the essays are part of that. If the effort isn’t perfect, too bad.</p>

<p>jym: Same here. :)</p>

<p>Post 565:</p>

<p>I essentially agree with that, except for the last paragraph. :)</p>

<p>That is, they can tell the difference with probably good accuracy – just as other institutions find the candidates, mostly, that they are seeking through different kinds of sifting. What I’m saying is, an awful lot of students who would do well at Chicago are turned off from even applying because the invitation is not being well communicated. Thus there is no essay even to review, because one is not even written.</p>

<p>I can’t disagree with that. Chicago was once my son’s “dream school”. The application was one of the main things that turned him off, and he didn’t apply. I’m pretty sure it would have been a good fit.</p>

<p>Hmmm, really mummom? You accused me of saying things I absolutely didnt say, over and OVER and OVER. Most of the time you either misread the post, confused me with pizzagirl, or just decided I had said something I never did, eg claiming I said you started another anti-chicago thread. Gee, feels like you are obsessed with me. <<<shiver>>></shiver></p>

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<p>And Chicago apparently does not care, or does not consider the alternative of having less-out-of-the-box essays (and capturing back some of those otherwise lost) worth the tradeoff of not being able to identify to their satisfaction the ones who really do like the quirky essays.</p>

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<p>Who says that just because you don’t go to Chicago, you’re not creative and inventive :-).</p>

<p>“Invent a new participle.” Prompt for 2010!</p>

<p>What can I say jym? Guess I’m not Chicago material?? :)</p>

<p>Just another side-bar following JHS’ helpful explanation.<br>
We’re not a family who watches Gilmour Girls, but I do get what he means. In watching the movie Lost in Translation several years ago, D and I laughed when hearing one of the characters tell Scarlett Johanssen’s character: “We can’t all go to Yale.” So speaking of market share, Y and H and P have more than their free publicity. (All That Heaven Allows, The Talented Mr. Ripley, more)</p>

<p>Speaking of laughing, she would double-over if anyone described her as “practically perfect in every way.” I can hear her now.</p>

<p>And I just saw PG’s cute addendum, but then I always thought she was Chicago material. Haha.</p>

<p>Au contraire, mummom, you are the MASTER at making up your own prompts and answering them :D</p>

<p>Post 570:</p>

<p>Yay! Thanks for validating my point. It was beginning to feel l…o…n…e…l…y.</p>

<p><em>claps hands</em></p>

<p>I also disagree with JHS that a Yale accept would necessarily “not have gone to chicago.” Not just her, others. People (cc posters) have posted all kinds of responses to “What reach school did you turn down?” or “What school did you choose instead of X [reach school]?” And those aren’t always FA reasons, either.</p>

<p>If Yale had deferred her, she probably would have applied to Chicago among a long list of “others.” She got lucky.</p>

<p>You’re kind, epiphany, but Chicago material I am not. I could not answer those prompts to save my life. They don’t appeal to me, but I am not bothered by their existence.</p>

<p>Here is the essay prompt S1 used. It brought out the very best in him and interestingly served to convince him he belonged at Chicago. But, I believe he would have found happiness most anywhere (though he did find a very special GF there).

</p>

<p>I’m glad they didn’t do that for the law school. I would have never gotten in.</p>

<p>"It brought out the very best in him and interestingly served to convince him he belonged at Chicago. But, I believe he would have found happiness most anywhere (though he did find a very special GF there).
"
IDAD: Great example!</p>

<p>An excellent question makes both parties smarter.</p>

<p>I am getting a kick out of this Chicago vs. … discussion. I found an article I have that has this quote from 1903 by William James. Seems this discussion is not new:

I am sure there were plenty of dissenters then as well.</p>

<p>I don’t get it. It does NOT help Chicago to accept students who aren’t going to attend. A kid who already has an admission to Yale in hand is highly unlikely to become a Chicago convert if they aren’t already in love with the idea of Chicago. </p>

<p>The concept behind targeted or niche marketing is to identify the market that is most likely to want to buy your product, and then develop a campaign focused on attracting those people. It’s a matter of efficiency. The merchant may have to deal with 100 potential customers to make 1 sale if the marketing is geared to appeal to a general audience, but with niche marketing may only have to deal with 5 customers per sale. </p>

<p>So entities that are widely recognized as being at the top of the market --the ones that have wide name-recognition and are already perceived to be the “best” – can do well with generalized marketing. Their goal may be to avoid giving offense, and to keep their materials as broad and as inoffensive as possible. </p>

<p>A student who is “turned off” by the pretentiousness of Chicago’s marketing materials or application is not particularly likely to enroll even if admitted. A student who is attracted precisely because they feel that the marketing somehow calls out to their internal sense of imagination or scholarliness or sense of specialness, is likely to have a greater sense of buy-in every step of the way. Those students are the ones who will start to commit emotionally from the start, and the more that Chicago can manage to charm them by playing on a theme that happens to resonate with them, the more likely they are likely to enroll even if accepted to other equivalent, peer universities. To the extent that Chicago cares about rankings, yield is important – and yield improves to the extent the targeting gets it right.</p>

<p>So to me the posters here who are critical of Chicago’s marketing simply are proving the point: their kids are unlikely to have chosen Chicago in any case. I know enough about cognitive dissonance to also know that kids who are “turned off” by some aspect of a college, whether it is the application process, a picture in a brochure, or the pearls and pumps worn by the student giving the campus tour – are already primed to look for reasons to say no. The “turn off” is something that tips the balance-- but if it wasn’t that, it would likely have been something else.</p>

<p>From time-to-time I get to speak with students interested in Chicago. What many of them respond to are those post-cards the school sends out. Much of the time they contain some form of self-depricating humor. Identifying and resonating with the Chicago style humor is probably as important as anything in identifying those who should likely attend. Accordingly, I tend to agree with calmom that a school like Chicago needs to target its marketing. It does have a long history of having an emphasis on the life of the mind and will likely continue to do so. It would be silly to try and be something it’s not, or to attempt to attract students who would not be happy at a school with that as the institutional focus.</p>