@Sarrip --Yes I saw the discussion of the title being changed by Admin… I mentioned that just to acknowledge that while the thread took a turn toward the more affordable option over maybe the pricey, more prestigious option there are other scenarios where a student’s choice might be unpopular. The title doesn’t really matter–its been an interesting discussion.
Yes, it has been an interesting discussion. I have not been on CC until recently since DS09 graduated from HS and much has changed. I had no idea about thread titles changing and becoming a feature thread (LOL). Now with DD20 I’m grateful for those who have given their outlook, input and perspective to the original questions:
“Have any of you ever made the “unpopular to some” decision of sending your child to a ‘safety’ school? Why did you do it and do you have any regrets? How did your child feel about this decision”?
Just like the answer to the question of which college to pick is “it depends,” the reasons behind why any given family may not be able to pay what any given college says they should be able to pay is complicated. Its often oversimplified here though. Drive luxury cars, take luxury trips, never say no to their kids, don’t value education, etc. No doubt if those things are true, you may well have problems paying for college. But there are other circumstances that create financial issues as well. As with many things, its complicated. Though may here really seem to view so many things in very simplistic black and white terms.
And sometimes you see people here talk about “sacrifice” which allowed them to send their kids to full pay schools. Then they proceed to tell you about driving 3 Series BMWs for a few years rather than 7 Series. And took one 2-week trip to Europe per year rather than three. If only other families loved their kids as much. LOL
@Knowsstuff Try 16 and the BMW. Not 19. Ha.
@saillakeerie yes, It’s complicated and sometimes families (even wealthy ones with the means) flat out do not think an undergrad degree is worth $300k. That’s fair enough as well. Again, though, they hopefully decide that early enough and tell their kids.
i’m not a parent, but i have a friend who got into USC (california) and our state school university of maryland college park. obviously USC is more competitive and has a more prestigious name to it, however she chose UMD because of financial reasons. i think most of us would feel a pang of regret if we chose to stay in state rather than going out to explore the world. that’s exactly how she feels today. she regrets it a lot. i say if you got into a really good school, and u can afford it, go! however most schools offer the same
programs and degrees, it’s all up to how the student uses his or her time to rise up among the crowds and gain more opportunities.
My kid made the unpopular decision herself, and I was the one who had qualms about it. She picked her safety over several much more highly rated schools. I think she made the right decision for herself. She was able to study abroad for a year, didn’t need to work during the school year, and has some money left in her college fund for grad school.
My daughter chose her safety over two much more selective schools and it came down to fit. When she visited the schools again after being accepted she was much more impressed with the opportunities at her “safety” school (in Honors Program) than at the highly ranked and more prestigious options.
I was concerned that she would regret not choosing the more prestigious choice, even though she was very firm on her decision.
She’s a sophomore now and has been happy since day 1. She is challenged in classes but still able to be involved in a very time-consuming club, participates in research with a professor, is in greek life and is a tour guide. It is a great balance.
Most of her friends chose their reach schools and honestly the feedback is that they are pretty stressed and having a hard time getting involved in extracurriculars.
I strongly suggest having the student spend as much time as possible at the schools after being admitted and ask the important questions. Besides finances, it really does come down to being happy there.
“My daughter chose her safety over two much more selective schools and it came down to fit.”
Right, I think this is what the OP had in mind originally, picking a safety when you could afford the more selective colleges, assuming they were affordable. Was it unpopular among parents, friends and other when your daughter made the decision?
I know a few kids who chose their safety school over an Ivy…despite finances not being an issue. Keep in mind that if you can get into an Ivy, your safety school is still going to be a very good school. Nobody at our HS comments on these decisions, despite being a very wealthy school where 16 year olds also drive BMWs.
The kids I know have no regrets. They are thriving and building quite the resume. My friend’s son has two fully funded, competitive summer research positions…one in Australia and the other in South America. Another girl is assisting a top researcher in her field of interest at her honors program.
The whole thing is silly. Find a fit school that is affordable…whatever it is. And…if you have the money to pay for Princeton but the student wants to attend Pitt or Miami on a full ride, with all of the perks that come with it…nothing wrong with that decision. Now…if the kid wants Princeton but the parent wants the full ride…that discussion should have taken place prior to applying so that there are no surprises.
The 4 years go by fast and in the real world people from all kinds of undergrad schools work together and attend grad school together. My D has a gap year job with kids from Yale as well as regular state schools.
“Now…if the kid wants Princeton but the parent wants the full ride…that discussion should have taken place prior to applying so that there are no surprises.”
We had all of my DS09 schools picked out (1 reach, matches & safeties which he was perfectly happy with), visited and was ready to go until a teacher told my son that she was disturbed by the fact that he didn’t apply to any Ivy’s and was not going to give him a reference unless he did (I do believe she was kidding). We made the last minute decision to apply to Princeton because of that, totally believing that he would not get in anyway, just to satisfy the teacher. Well he got in and decided to attended because it was an affordable option for us, was in state, no travel and hotel budget was needed, additional medical insurance was not needed etc. I’m not saying to haphazardly apply to colleges without the benefit of discussion and finances but sometimes things just work out. And to be perfectly honest, one of his safety schools did offer him a full ride and I do regret not taking it because I believe it would have been a better fit for him and he would have been happier. Not saying he was not happy at all. For DD20 we have learned so much more and have a different perspective.
As a HS senior, my DD is grappling with the whole “dream” school ( I really hate this term) vs target vs safety concept. The Ivies get so hyped up and romanticized in these kids minds, it makes it hard to make a ration/common sense decision. Luckily, my kid is very pragmantic.
This time last year she wouldn’t have even considered the big public flagships in our state as anything more than a backup to the backup. But, after spending last summer taking classes as Brown(dream school) and visiting her other reach schools she was began to think bigger picture. I made her attend the Flagships invite in early spring for a “how to apply” day and she fell in love with the campus and the people.
If she was going into the workforce right out of Bachelors, like engineering or Business, I would steer her more towards a Private/elite school. But, she is more a history/artsy type so is going directly to Grad school and money becomes a bigger factor.
She got EA at our big State schools (MIchigan and MSU), will most likely get into Brown and Wellsley, maybe UofC…I have a feeling Michigan will wi n out.
This reminds me of, I think it is the show “Property Brothers” (the real estate makeover show with the twin brothers). where they first show the home-hunting couple a gorgeous house with all the features the couple wants, and then tells them the house costs $$$$ which is $XXX over their budget.
If a school is unaffordable/significantly over budget, its momentarily painful to have to say “love it but have to leave it” and focus on making the best of the affordable option. And oftentimes its better to be the top of the middle than the middle of the top.
@MickeyEarwax I sure hope you haven’t been telling your daughter she will get into Brown, Chicago, and Wellesley. Those are so far from being likely admits. You should be preparing her for the most likely outcome - rejection.
This has been a helpful thread to read, even if it just helps me feel better about our decision to guide our DS20 onto the path of zero debt education. We have been upfront with him since he was a sophomore/ junior about our position on what we would be willing to pay. I’ve personally struggled a bit over the last year or so about whether I’ve done a disservice to him…whether going to a top engineering school will make a significant difference in his career or grad school opportunities. In the fall, we slightly caved and told him he could apply to 1-2 ‘reach for the stars’ schools like MIT, and that the extra cost versus state school could be an interest free loan from his parents. His response was that he didn’t even want to be in debt to us. So- I guess all of our spooky debt stories over the years have worked. My hope/ expectation is that he will do quite well at whichever accredited but affordable engineering program he goes into- but it is impossible to know the outcome of the ‘might have been’ scenario.
Regardless- we are at peace with our approach, incredibly proud of what he has done so far, and excited to sit with him in March/ April to consider the various factors that will go into the final decision.
@MickeyEarwax… First off… Interesting name ?. Secondly residents of Michigan to me are in a different situation. You have absolutely great local affordable colleges abound. I know so many that just apply instate to Michigan, Michigan State, then add Wayne or Grand Valley or Oakland. Besides going oos there doesn’t seem to be a great reason to do do…besides ego or perceived prestige… Keeping up with the Joneses. You are really blessed with the instate options you have.
Michigan, instate, tends to be one of the best bargains anywhere. Trust me and don’t regret it later. I grew up in Michigan… Moved to Chicago and now pay for the privilege of sending my son there. Agh…Its a big deal to go there from my state… Trust me… Not sure what you would gain at the other colleges mentioned except a larger tuition bill ?.
Congrats on your daughter’s acceptance.
BTW -tons of history /arsty types at Michigan… She will find her people anywhere… (same with MSU)
This ^^^
Our D21 is hearing how S19’s workload is intense and, even though he’s at a school that is definitely collaborative and not competitive in nature, she wants more of a balance. I may have mentioned this earlier but, when he’s not at practice or eating, he’s in class or at the library. Weekends are morning until night studying (although he does give himself Friday nights off!) He had a high school friend visit for part of a weekend and he could barely enjoy it because he knew he’d get behind on work for that day. It’s just a lot. He would say he has friends who don’t work as hard but they are getting Bs and he’s really trying to maximize his GPA. We’ve flat out told him that some Bs are fine but he’s just not programmed that way. He’s a bit jealous of his friends at some other schools who have way more time to play or join multiple clubs. So, yes, be careful what you wish for. If a student wants to go to a highly ranked school, get on campus, stay overnight, get into a class, find kids (preferably kids you know from your hometown) and ask them for the real deal on the school. S19 did this and went in eyes wide open so no regrets but it’s not for everyone.
D21 wants to do well in school of course but she’d like to go out more than once a week and not spend a bazillion hours in the library. She has multiple interests and wants to try a bunch of different clubs and activities. It’s one thing we are surprised about in S19’s case. Between academics and running, there is almost zero time to dip into other interests on campus. He volunteers teaching fifth graders at the local school for two hours a week but that’s all he can manage right now.
Also, at most of these “reachy” type universities, you will have to compete to get into clubs. You can’t just join. Even the volunteering options are by application. Want to do Dance Marathon at Northwestern? Anyone could do it when I was there. Now it’s a whole big application and interview process to be able to participate.
My D attended a reachy university and yes…there is definitely an application process to get into some clubs and volunteer positions (not all).
One major club required an application, several essays, and three interviews…but in all fairness, this club was representing the school in a huge way.
Her hospital volunteer job required an application and interview
Another club/volunteer position required an interview, but it was mostly as a way to place students in various spots, locations etc.
Several other clubs and organizations that she was involved in (ended up dropping due to time constraints) were open to all.
But yes…at her school there are definitely certain clubs that have a rigorous interview process.
It is all about open, honest communication within a family.
The original post explicitly named “Ivies,” which meet full need.
If a family can pay the NPC amount but will not, ideally that discussion should be held before a teen applies or even visits a college. Colleges that will not be real options should not be applied to. Why dream about what you can’t do? If the expectations are clear from the outset, then the teen will not be as disappointed as if they were to get into a college and then are told they need to turn it down.
If the family has a murky financial situation where the NPC may not be accurate and financial package may not meet need because the college cannot accurately assess the family’s need… then the family should be clear with the applicant that attendance is contingent upon the aid package, with an exact ‘can pay’ amount named beforehand.
I do not think that a child will feel resentful if the parents make it clear that they love the child with all their heart and will do everything in their power to fund the child’s education, but that they simply cannot afford to pay beyond a certain price.
Resentment would come out of a different substance to the communications and reflect other aspects of the relationship.
The message, “We WON’T pay for you to attend an academically elite college,” is a very different message from “We CAN’T pay,” or even than, “We have limited money and if we paid so much for your education, it would affect our family in these ways: A, B, C…”. One sets up the parent as a controlling personality indifferent to the child’s desires and future. The other shows a caring parent helping the child learn to navigate through financial constraints and other planning for the future.
And the message also needs to be one of confidence that the teen can create a great future for him/herself at ANY college or university, because the parent believes in how awesome the child is.
Until the time he died of Alzheimer’s, even when he had forgotten almost everything else, my dad still remembered that he was admitted despite the Jewish quota at Dartmouth but his father told him, “If you want to live like a parasite off the fat of the lamb, I will pay for Dartmouth. But if you want to be a real man, you’ll be independent and go where you can pay your own way.” So my father turned down Dartmouth and went to Brooklyn College. He never stopped resenting it, but as you can see, this parent-child exchange was just one symbol of a troubled relationship between parent and child.
The problem with this thinking is state flagships might not be the best fit for many students. For example, if your a student who wants a liberal arts education, no Greek system, and a smaller undergrad population in an urban environment, than UM would not be a good fit, no matter what the cost.
I think there is a false assumption that any old state flagship is what’s best for the student. I know several CA students who didn’t even apply to any in-state colleges even though we have some for the “best” college systems in the US.
At the end of the day the important things are understanding what factors in a college will create the best environment for the student to excel and then managing expectations about cost of such colleges will alleviate having to make the “unpopular decision”.
Yes fit is important and still many smaller colleges in Michigan to meet that demand. I just find it funny when someone in Michigan gets accepted to like University of Michigan to go oos for a like school at double the price. To me that’s kinda silly. But to each it’s own. It’s just one of the best educational values on many levels.