I know how many of us miss iDad. Several of you have really stepped up - Michael, MOWC - thank you.
I think my problem is that I dislike the feeling so much I don’t really ever get to “heart pounding lungs burning.”
Well- you aren’t really ever supposed to unless you are racing something short. For the max HR test, unfortunately you have to. No one likes being truly anaerobic and in oxygen debt! I think you (meaning “we”) need to get comfortable with being out of your comfort zone and at least in an aerobic state that is a little bit of a challenge, though.
I have (had?) EIB, and I also hated the feeling of bloody taste in the mouth and not being able to exhale at the end of my XC ski races… Running was not as bad of a deal.
I think I need to upgrade my Garmin… 
I am as about un-hardcore as you can be. Un-hardcore isn’t a word but couldn’t think of a better term. I struggle every single day. I am not athletic, never was athletic. I don’t like to go to classes and am not anyone’s definition of a hardbody.
But as I’ve gotten older, I have come to the realization that if I want to live and be active as I age I have to work out. Sigh, it’s such a struggle. But every day I come here and I see what other people have done. I rarely feel worthy, the most I’ve run is a 10k and it was slow. My 5k time is over 30 minutes. I golf badly and XC ski slowly on flat trails.
The people here cheer everyone on, everyone. Because the little accomplishments are big and so are the big accomplishments. Every single thing counts for every person. Thanks for letting me ramble on about this little part of my motivation.
Today, I ran on the treadmill. Oh how I hate the treadmill. It was too warm to ski but the good news is that next week it’s going to get cold and the lake effect machine will turn on. XC skiing is so much fun.
Rant today: starvation is not a diet plan.
Oh I get out of my comfort zone – just not all out of it, if that makes sense! I’m definitely sweating, breathing heavily, etc. during something like Orange Theory. My strength-guy has me doing a move he calls cheerleaders - step up rapidly on a Bosu ball with weights, lifting them over your head like, well, a cheerleader, and that gets the heart going, too. I definitely prefer anything strength related to anything cardio related and I suspect you’re precisely the opposite!
Deb - unathletic is my middle name ( maybe my first name, too). I started out small by going to a yoga class once a week or so. I enjoy that yoga is non competitive and not judgement all. I found that after I starting practicing 3 times a week I could see a lot of improvement. I have always like to walk, but I am now stepping up my game and starting to run and plan to join a running group this spring.
This is a great group, very supportive as well as knowledgeable.
@deb922 : a 5K time anywhere near 30 minutes impresses me. I wouldn’t call it slow. My current goals are to break 30 minutes for a 5K (this spring) and (longterm) to run an 8:13 mile (which would be the age record equivalent of my best mile at age 25). I have run a few 10Ks but I really enjoy 5K runs–and find longer runs less pleasurable. This was true even in my 20s when I ran with the Greater Boston Track Club and everyone else was doing marathons.
I agree that everyone here is very supportive, and I’m personally delighted to find @MichaelNKat and @MomofWildChild share my desire for scientific information on athletic training.
And regarding heart rates, I find that my heart rate at the end of a 5K is the same every time–176–so I’ve been using that as my “max heart rate” for training purposes. I will note that my speed at that heart rate is steadily improving.
Oh Deb, I could just hug you right now! You say so much about how I feel about this thread - and the part of being non-athletic - haha! Heck yeah, we are! We are here and we are doing and we are pretty darn consistent - in my 56 year old world, that’s athletic for ME!!!
Re: the other thread, thanks for the kudos - I REALLY shouldn’t visit that thread - I get upset too many times when I do! I just so want to help those who truly want to learn how to make small gains (or should I say small losses!) in weight or exercise - but I get SOO frustrated by what I’ll call “mentality”. It totally frustrates me! BUT, I also know that sometimes, someone like @FallGirl wanders over from that thread and comes here - and is such a great addition! So…sometimes I just can’t keep my mouth shut…(you should see all the tongue holding I have to do at work…)
Enough of that. Just completed a “for me” GREAT 4 mile run. 45 degrees on January 7 - heck yeah!
Re: HR - yes, that’s what I was thinking - peak would be when you feel ready to drop. I don’t think I want to go there! I do note that my average 3-4 mile runs seem to net an average of around 150 - hopefully that’s reasonable! That’s what Fitbit tells me - and I don’t feel ready to drop at that point. So overall,sounds like I’m “ok” - resting HR and active.
Heart rate based training can be a bit tricky to understand because so much of what we get exposed to as “target zones” is based on generic formulas that really don’t make any sense when you dig into them. We’ve all seen the charts on the cardio machines at the gym that use a 220-age type of formula and then give you corresponding target heart rates for different % training zones. This morning, while on vacation, I did a 60 minute eliptical workout. The chart on the machine had 5 year age groupings and corresponding heart rates for low intensity “fat burning” (I think it was 60%) and high intensity training at 80%. According to the chart, my “high intensity” target heart rate was 128. In reality, that’s right in the middle of my aerobic base training zone. My actual 80% heart rate is about 158. The reason the chart is so wildly off is twofold.
First, the chart is based on a generic age based formula calculation of max heart rate. 220-age is about the worst formula out there for predicting a person’s actual max heart rate but is the most common one used because it’s simple and has been embraced by the medical community for typical stress tests. There are better formulas out there to calculate theoretical max heart rates but the problem with all of them is that they were derived based on testing of specifically defined populations and if you don’t fit in the demographics of the test population or the demographics don’t fit you, the formula isn’t a good match. Moreover, the formula is designed to produce an result that is an averaging of the test results for the group. It doesn’t give you true individualized results. So the max hr used as the foundation for calculating target zones is not accurate.
The second reason the chart is way off is a bit more complicated. Heart rate based training is really a convenient surrogate for % VO2 max. VO2 max is the max volume of oxygen that your body can take in and utilize in the energy production process. When we train, we are attempting to increase our body’s efficiency in utilizing oxygen and increasing our maximum utilization capacity. That’s what cardio training is all about. But we can’t do our cardio training with oxygen/carbon dioxide measuring devices strapped to us :). So we use heart rate as a surrogate. It’s convenient. But to be a good surrogate, hr % must correlate well with the same % of VO2 max. If you simply use a straight % of your max heart rate to set training zones, the correlation is way off the mark until you hit about 90-95%! But all the charts use the “straight %” approach. Again because it’s easy and convenient. The better approach is to use the “Heart Rate Reserve” method of calculating target zones. It’s been demonstrated to have a pretty consistent 1:1 correlation to % VO2 max. The formula to calculate target zones using HRR is (max hr - resting hr) x % + resting heart rate. Compare the two using my numbers: Chart - (220-62) = 158 x .80 = 126.4. Using my actual max hr of 185 - 185 X .80 = 148. Using HRR method - (185-54) = 131 x .80= 104.8 + 54 = 158.8. Big differences!! Try it with your own numbers at various %'s; the results might surprise you.
Part 2 to follow.
Part 2:
So questions have been posed about how to determine actual max heart rates to use in determining training zones. A threshold concept to understand is that max heart rate is dependent on what modality of exercise you use for cardio training. Your max heart rate if running will be different than if cycling or swimming. So if you are going to determine your max heart rate, do it using the modality of exercise you intend to use for your training.
That being said, you can have lab testing done or do field testing to determine max heart rate. A while ago, I posted some info about field testing protocols for runners. See my post #47173 on 12/15/15. Maximal heart rate testing shouldn’t be done without medical clearance and supervision if you have any history of cardiac or hypertensive medical issues, diabetes and various other medical conditions that are contraindicated.
A good alternative for those that don’t have access to maximal hr testing and for most people other than serious competitive athletes is to use ventilary threshold testing and training zones that are determined by using a “talk test” and heart rate monitor. I also posted some info on this awhile back. See my posts #45649 and 45652 on 10/1 and 10/2/15. VT thresholds, based on the “talk test”, with or without using a hr monitor, are keyed directly into the individual metabolic pathways of each person and can work very well for the majority of cardio exercisers.
This is so, so helpful! ^^^ Even us “non-athletes” can understand the talk test!
Michael, thank you!!!
Thank you! Very helpful! And count me in as the non-athlete type who still has horrid memories of gym class, and never learned a darn thing from it except that when they play dodgeball, it’s best to let yourself be hit by it so you can sit down and end this torture.
1 hour 15 minutes at 130 HR on bike trainer. Tonight after workout felt more energized afterwards? Usually I’m collapsing after running my last mile as I’m usually going the last 600 meters at 5:00 pace. I’m probably at 12 min pace at 130 HR.
Think I’ll do a two a day tomorrow. Swimming/weights early am. Running pm.
Went sea kayaking with Mr. for an hour after he and kiddo kayaked for an hour. Had to use every minute of our two hour rental! Kiddo’s reaction, “It is a freaking workout!” Lol. Going to walk to the Ville - kiddo seems to enjoy this activity… makes her 10,000 steps a day goal easily achievable.
I enjoy this thread a lot, especially hearing about the variety of different activities that everyone participates in. Someday I hope to branch out and do more than just running and weight training at the gym and it’s interesting to know what you are all up to.
Tonight was a tough workout with my trainer at the gym. Mainly upper body and core. Tomorrow is an early morning run.
I miss kayaking!!! You’re so lucky BB! Can’t wait for summer!
So for those who are interested, here’re the protocols for conducting VT1 and VT2 talk test based testing to determine heart rates at each threshold. To do it and determine heart rates with precision is a little technical but it avoids getting embroiled in max hr and structuring training ranges based on that.
https://quizlet.com/58776491/ace-ch8-ventilatory-threshold-testing-cardio-flash-cards/
And if this is too technical for your tastes, just know that if you can talk comfortably in paragraphs you are likely below VT1, if it starts to be uncomfortable to talk in paragraphs, you’ve likely crossed VT1 and if you can’t talk in uninterrupted paragraphs, you’ve likely hit VT2. If you’re gasping for breath, you have dug deep above VT2.
Yet another adult who wasn’t athletically gifted as a kid and traumatized by gym class. In fact, may I legitimately count shivering as a micro workout ? I flew to the snowy midwest yesterday. Since it’s the new year and I’m still enthusiastic and carrying the “make no excuses” fitness banner, I got my walking miles in at MCO and ORD, making use of the tunnel between United’s B and C terminals in Chicago for laps and stair work carrying weights of bags on each side. I’ve had two excellent shoveling sessions with the increasingly heavy melty kind of snow. Also, this morning my sister and I went to SIL’s tabata class (a first for me–ouch), ran 5K on the indoor track, and walked a few more miles outside.