Well, if you have another child to put thru college, then please don’t make the mistake that some have made and that’s borrowing too much for Child #1 and then still be neck-deep in payments when it comes time for Child #2 to go to college. Then what?
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She has her heart set on a top school.
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I’m sure that she’s thoughtful enough not to have her heart set on putting her parents into a big hole of debt, especially if that means her younger sibling will also feel the brunt.
If she wants to go to law school, then really nearly any very good school is good enough. There’s a mom here on CC whose child took a full ride scholarship to a mid-tier flagship and he just finished his First Year at UVA Law (where he also got a tuition scholarship!).
How much can you pay (without loans) each year toward college?
Besides the discipline issue, don’t just focus on reach schools. You do need some match schools and safeties. OOS flagship like Umich and UCB would not be any easier than your in state flagship.
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. I keep forgetting how different job prospects are for humanities majors. I was an engineer and got a good job right out of school. And yes, there is law school in the future, which we won’t be funding …
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Yes, but even a degree in eng’g isn’t worth $100k in debt…not even $80k of debt.
Since there is a glut of attys, many who are having to take jobs at modest pay, it would be better for your D to get big merit for undergrad so that you can help her pay for law school.
I just found out today that my friend’s D graduated with $180k of law school debt last year, she passed the bar, but she can’t find a job.
@NewWaveMom: Your daughter’s GC recommendation is likely to be VERY important (and, incidentally, many GCs know Regional Admissions Officers from institutions of the stature you’ve cited quite well, so the “recommendation” may well extend beyond a formal document). Specifically, if the GC indicates that your D’s illicit drug use was a single, early mistake and that she is a fine kid and student, she should be competitive (although her GPA and SAT scores are not particularly “acceptance compelling” for the most-selective schools). On the other hand, if the GC formally (and/or informally) suggests your D is bright and promising – but potential trouble – then she’ll be noncompetitive.
It’s critical to understand both:
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That the GC’s recommendation is presumptively the key impartial and professional character, maturity, and intellectual readiness for undergraduate school assessment.
That universities of this caliber annually deny tens-of-thousand of candidates with “numbers” similar (or even superior) to your D’s. Therefore, why would they incur a risk when they have literally many thousands of similar applicants from which to select?
I think your dd may need a reality check. She has a blot on her record that is going to mean admissions is a wildcard for her. Discussing a drug suspension is not a ‘good essay’ topic. I hate to have to see a student have to waste an essay on that. And blaming on other people isn’t going to come off well. Maybe a fulsome essay would come off better, she can take a try and see how it sounds. But I would tend to use a shorter paragraph in ‘other information’ for it. Something to strategize on.
Wisconsin does ‘consider’ legacy, but instate applications are considered ‘important’. So I’m not sure how much boost that gives.
Good point, @albert69. The only thing is that culturally, I’m not sure the South fits our profile. I’m thinking Wisconsin (data went there) or California (grandfather went there) or Michigan, if our own state school rejects.
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What is your instate school? I’m wondering if Wisconsin or UC Berkeley are likely OOS if your daughter doesn’t get into your own state flagship?
Also, on the drug situation, I recall in The Gatekeepers (Jacques Steinberg, 2002) there was a student applying to Wesleyan with some sort of drug-related suspension and the author discussed how she presented it in her application and how Wesleyan’s admissions committee responded. Although the book is few years old (and admissions to top LACs have gotten notably more competitive since then), I recommend it as both a good read and a general description of the complexities of the college application process at top colleges.
Thank you for the recommendation, @GnocchiB! I just ordered The Gatekeepers. Wesleyan is actually on our list, too. Our state school is Virginia, which is hard to get into even without a blemish. Incidentally, the drug use was a one-time incident. I will make an appointment with the GC to see whether she will be addressing it. But I agree with @BrownParent that it won’t be the major essay topic; we will address it thoughtfully as a supplemental essay.
The common app asks for a separate piece of writing to explain the infraction. We shouldn’t confuse it with what we ordinarily consider a supplemental essay.
Wes isn’t a safety.
Here’s a link to colleges that meet full need. It doesn’t mean you get every penny you want, but depending on your financial circumstances, they “can” offer more than a college that’s more arbitrary in aid decisions. Next, you want to look at the merit schools listed on CC. http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2014/09/15/colleges-and-universities-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need
And double check the list, sometimes they make changes in their policies. Find some real safeties in the list. The quality of a school is NOT in their USNews ranking, nor brand recognition. It’s in what they specifically offer a kid for her particular interests- the major dept, the programs and other opportunities. I admit D1’s second choice was much further down any ranking list- but what a department.
Also noticed the plan to discuss the drug incident, even “thoughtfully as a supplemental essay,” and thought it was a bad idea. Not as bad as the student who discussed a disciplinary action related to guns in his essay, but not good.
IMHO the best way for a student to treat a discipline issue is to briefly describe it, acknowledge that it was stupid/immature/wrong, and state (again, briefly) what s/he has learned from the incident. No excuses, no waffling.
“She was bullied into it” could be read by an admissions reader as “she’s a social outsider” or “she’s weak-willed and folds under social pressure.” AO’s know there’s plenty of indirect peer pressure to drink to excess and make other dumb choices at college. They want kids who can stand on their own two feet.
I would suggest putting this in the “additional information” section. I’d keep it simple, direct and brief. The idea is to reassure the committee without making it the focus of their attention.
Think about what kind of response you’d want from your child if she did something stupid. You wouldn’t want her to make excuses, would you? A year ago one of my daughter’s friends did something monumentally stupid and rude in my home during a group sleepover. Not knowing who had done it I made an angry call my daughter. An hour later I got a call from her friend who apologized directly and sincerely. She took full responsibility and acknowledged that what she had done was disrespectful and just plain wrong. Her apology rang so true that I was able to quickly forgive her and put it into the “even good kids make bad mistakes” category. She’s welcome in my home.
Also putting in some early apps to rolling admission schools might help test the waters and lock in some schools early or find out early you need more safe schools.
Thank you, @Sue22. I will definitely take that advice.
@NavalTradition, what I’m worried about at schools like ODU, Longwood, Radford, etc. is the lack of intellectual challenge. I honestly think it might be better if it comes to that, to take a year off, do some volunteer work for a year, then try again the following year for a higher caliber school.
@BrownParent, you’re absolutely right. Luckily UVA has rolling admission, so we will be doing that. And we’ll apply to Cornell early decision. I will look into other rolling admission schools, as well.
@CheddarcheeseMN, what I meant by ‘thoughtfully as a supplemental essay’ was in the space where they ask for an explanation of any discipline issue. We have to explain, right?