I don’t want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member
Groucho Marx
@Calicash, I was the one who brought up The Gatekeepers and yes, it is extremely out of date BUT it does give a “behind the scenes” look at how an applicant handled a drug offense and how it was looked at by Wesleyan 15 years ago.
For all others who have not read the book, I pulled it out last night to re-read parts of it and the applicant, Rebecca, is described as having deliberately taken 2 bites of a pot brownie (she knew there was pot in it - it was not an accident) before school, gone to class, heard the scuttlebut about others’ getting sick from them and the administration getting involved, and immediately (on the day of the event, before school let out) marching into the principal’s office to tell him that she had eaten one. I think the key details in her story are that (1) her sense of honor compelled her to turn herself in and face the consequences when it was highly likely that she would not have been implicated, and (2) she did it immediately, and (3) that she did things after the fact (served as honor council chair) to rehabilitate herself. Spoiler alert - Wesleyan wait listed her, and she got off the waitlist in the summer, but by then she had accepted a January enrollment spot at Cornell CAS.
At the end of the day, as competitive as applications looked in the book in 2002, they have gotten a whole lot more competitive. The reference to the book was merely supposed to be a datapoint for the OP’s consideration and not a road map of what she and her D should expect.
Several of us, with varying degrees of subtlety, have attempted to suggest that your expectations may be inordinately elevated. Many of us are parents (and grandparents), and we have considerable experience walking the very paths you are now embarked upon. We, too, love our children and take great pride in them. However, because we are attempting to assist YOUR DAUGHTER, we are not understandably reluctant to acknowledge reality.
For these reasons, finding legitimate match and safety schools is VITAL; since you reside in (Northern?) Virginia, a number of fine in-state schools (VPI, ODU, JMU, GMU, U of MW, and VCU) are viable matches/safeties. All of these institution have been respected for many generations and have placed alumni in the best postgraduate programs and careers. Some of these should probably reside on your daughter’s “short list.”
Unquestionably, she should also apply to a couple institutions such as Cornell, Penn, Georgetown, and Brown. Nevertheless, neither you nor she should become “emotionally wedded” to matriculation at universities such as these. In candor, her GPA and SAT scores make acceptance FAR from certain in this institutional category (crucially, approximately 70 percent of Class of '20 applicants will have records with distinction similar to your daughter’s, whereas only about 15 percent will be admitted).
The undergraduate admissions process is difficult for many; becoming overly attached to “reach” universities only makes things more stressful and painful. In addition, there is the looming issue of her illicit drug use and how it may influence her candidacy (it MUST be reported on the Common App).
Exactly!! I have been thinking those same words all along and even typed them out myself prior to deleting!
@NewWaveMom, it is hard to come to terms with our imperfect offspring and I applaud your efforts to do so. You will do your daughter the biggest favor in the world if you start now to reduce expectations and ease some of the environmental pressures on your daughter. Environments where kids feel pressure to take ADHD meds illicitly aren’t healthy for children and other living things. I am watching friends deal with dashed expectations AFTER college acceptances and it seems like it is a heck of a lot easier to deal with reducing those expectations BEFORE applying to college. Help your daughter to detach her sense of self from her college acceptances by starting the process for yourself.
In terms of finding safeties and good targets, the best advice I can give young women on the East coast is to look to the Midwest and, if they are interested in LACs, look at women’s colleges.
All the best.
@thumper1 Yes, she and I had to actually attend a six-week parent/child drug education class. The director of the program could see that the kid didn’t fit the profile and excused us from the final class. Good point about the GC reiterating that it was a one-off incident. When I went to enroll her at the school, I took with me a number of letters various adults had written on her behalf, stating that this isolated incident was out of character. So, that information is her student profile.
Thank you, @frazzled1. I have heard good things about Pittsburgh. I just added it to our list.
Thank you, @MYOS1634. Just took Wesleyan off the list. I have thought about Richmond; but it’s a bit conservative, I have heard. But I agree that it is a good school and worth getting on the list.
@GMTplus7 and @lookingforward, thanks for the heads up on Gatekeepers and Hernandez. I will take their advice with a grain of salt. I bet the high-stat kids filled out their applications to GW and AU in such a way that made it obvious they believed the schools to be safeties. I actually did this myself when I was applying and ended up getting into UMich and not getting into Delaware, which was my safety.
@txstella Sorry about the flippant comment. I’m actually getting my masters at GW now. Maybe my program is just lame. I believe the undergrad program is better.
@SimpleLife We visited Vanderbilt last summer and, although it’s less “South” than Alabama, the prevalence of cowboy boots and hats was a little jarring. But she did like it; I will have to get over myself. I moved to the U.S. as an Iranian immigrant in middle school and grew up in a smallish town in PA where there was zero diversity. I got a lot of mean comments from xenophobic people. Having lived in the Northeast all of our lives and now in Northern Virginia, where there is tons of diversity, I think it would be difficult to adapt in the South. Also, I’ve heard some negative comments about Jewish friends who went to college in the South and had antisemitic experiences. So, while I agree it is silly in the bigger scheme of things, this is why it worries me. Perhaps UT in Austin may be a bit more liberal? I know, not a safety … Also, I suggested Duke to her and we were going to visit there on the way back from Vanderbilt, but it’s hard to get into and I don’t think it’s the right fit. It seems very “jocky” which my kid is not. She’s more nerdy/intellectual.
@CTTC, sorry to misstate again. SAT scores are CR: 730, Math: 770, Writing: 630. She just took the SAT again this past weekend to raise the writing score. The high school doesn’t rank, unfortunately. Extracurriculars are several years of debate team (she’s captain and has qualified for nationals this year), 2 years of marching band at old school (during which activity unfortunate incident transpired), class president in 9th grade, will have total of 2 years of cross country at new school (will probably not letter), secretary of NHS. Her passion is politics and she’s volunteered on a lot of campaigns. She’ll have a paying job at a campaign this summer.
@lookingforward, the transcript includes the other HS’s courses and grades. I agree about meeting with GC. Will do so before the school year is out.
@ErinsDad, well said 
Again, thank you to all. Your feedback and comments are truly invaluable. I really appreciate this.
@TopTier, thank you for the dose of reality. I myself experienced heartache when I failed to get into Cornell as a kid. I ended up going to UMass (over UMich, due to financial reasons) and I was miserable. I felt cheated. I ended up transferring to Cornell as a junior, so it worked out. But it wasn’t easy.
I am trying to find schools that are not on the Common App (Berkeley and Wisconsin) because I know I will have to disclose the issue and I know that these schools do not ask the discipline question. I think she has a good shot at these schools because her dad and uncle went to Wisconsin and my dad and his uncles went to Berkeley.
Thank you, @LeftofPisa, for the encouraging words. We have Northwestern on the list – does that count? I wonder about the LAC list. Swarthmore, Vassar, Williams and (until an hour ago) Wesleyan are/were on the list. All in the reach/match category. But I wonder if smaller colleges have less tolerance for discipline issues?
^ WOW. Just WOW. I guess just your area has “tons of diversity”. Northern Virginia…REALLY! Some of the most ignorant and arrogant comments I have ever read in a single post.
Duke, Vandy, the entire South, not good enough for your daughter who got with caught with DRUGS at school.
@txstella, I think you misunderstood. I like Duke but my daughter says it’s too jocky. She likes Vanderbilt, but I had never seen so many cowboy boots in one place. Sorry, if that’s ignorant. They are both great schools and she will most likely apply to Vanderbilt. Jeez.
I’m not saying that “just my area” has tons of diversity. Like I said, I lived in pockets of the Northeast (PA) that had none and it was very traumatic.
Ohhhhh. A kid interested in govt who actually got engaged! Good. Now you may have a character reference.
@NewWaveMom, LOL! No, Northwestern is not exactly what I had in mind. I mean a school that not every other top student in your D’s peer group is applying to, say University of Minnesota or Macalester.
I am going to be brutally blunt, Williams, Swarthmore, Vassar and Wesleyan are very, very tough for unhooked East Coast girls. I know a great kid who got waitlisted at Vassar and into Brown. It doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen but it is a heck of a lot more likely that it won’t. If your D likes Swarthmore, have her look at Bryn Mawr which is part of the same consortium. If she likes Amherst, have her look at Smith and Mt. Holyoke which are also in the same consortium.
You need to look off the beaten path. I don’t know how to say it more clearly. EVERY top kid in EVERY school all up and down the East Coast is applying to the same batch of schools and won’t have the blemish on their record your D does.
You will be so much happier next April if your D has options and if her sense of self isn’t dependent on getting into a “top” school.
Also, FYI, colleges will recalculate her GPA using their own formula and usually throwing out any arts courses. Don’t know if that is an issue for your D. But it is much safer to use her unweighted GPA since each school does things differently.
I don’t believe the grandfather and his uncle’s going to Berkeley are going to have that much impact on admissions. Plus, there is the cost factor. Very likely, you will be full pay there at over $50,000 a year for an OOS student.
I live in the northeast, and I own cowboy boots. So does my daughter. So do lots of our friends. To be honest, I find your comment about them a bit shallow.
You’re right, @thumper1. My comment was shallow. I’m obviously defensively biased. Thank you for pointing that out; duly noted.
@NewWaveMom, look at some of the Colleges That Change Lives – Reed, say, might fit the bill.
They conveniently color-coded the map so you can just avoid the pink (Southern) ones and you’ll be fine : )
Here’s the link -
Thank you, @GnocchiB! I clearly have a lot to learn.
We’re all learning together, @NewWaveMom! Thank goodness for College Confidential!
Newwave…you have a kid with some great assets. Look for places that will welcome her, not places where you feel like the only way for acceptance is to cover up her one disciplinary action. This is especially true if the GC can write a supportive counsellors recommendation about her assets…and that the disciplinary issue was one time, and not likely to repeat. But that has to be true for the GC to make that statement.
There are lots of kids who have made mistakes. There is more zero tolerance now than many years ago, and that is not a bad thing.
You have a ton of reach schools on your radar. Look at the characteristics…and find some schools that are less selective and more affordable that share the chararacteristics of these schools.
Whar about some of the women’s colleges that are not as competitive as Bryn Mawr?
Your D has a 1500 CR+M score, which is what most colleges consider from the SAT. With a good GPA (3.5+) I would think that she could get some fantastic merit aid places if you are willing to look for it.
Thank you, @thumper1. I definitely don’t plan on covering anything up. That’s the wrong message to send to my kid and doesn’t give her enough credit for what she went through and how she was able to put it past her. She wants to go to law school so I will look at schools that have high law school acceptance rates …
Then you should definitely try to minimize undergrad costs. Are you going to borrow an unlimited amount for law school as well?
My sister went to the University of New Mexico as an undergrad in political science and English then went to law school at UC Berkeley. http://scholarship.unm.edu/scholarships/index.html If her GPA remains 3.9, she could get some serious money there.
That’s south, but more southwest. It’s not humid, just hot (in summer) 