Well, also with the drug issue, less selective schools that mostly care about grades, test scores, class rank etc., need to be on the list just in case.
My son is a political wonk, and he attends New College of Florida. I think your daughter could get in pretty easily. It is very liberal, and Florida will be a political hotspot in 2016. Although it is small, and a large majority of students are from Florida, it is a fairly intellectual place. Your daughter would not feel unwelcome. They have a special scholarship program for girls from the Middle East; five entered last fall, and appear to have acclimated easily. Think about it as a low-match or safe school. It offers an abundance of opportunities for independent study, internships, and both domestic and international exchange programs.
We see here on CC that students/parents have the attitude of:
“My SAT is 2200…I want only the top schools! (even though I really can’t afford it”
instead
“My SAT is 2200…that is high enough to get some awesome merit scholarships!!”
OP for what it’s worth you have been very gracious in accepting everyone’s (very knowledgeable) input.
The finances are a big big part. I haven’t read your other thread yet but 2 thoughts. (1) consider other big ticket purchases you might make…houses or cars…you not only need to look at how they fit your lifestyle SUV/convertible/good school district/biking distance to work but you need to consider cost right? Of course you are looking for the best deal on the best product/location. Don’t stop looking for something you can afford that will be a good fit right out of the gate instead of focusing something you can’t afford. (2) RE loans. Others have said it already but if you haven’t been able to save so far (and very few have saved enough) than under what plan will you be able to afford these private loans for both your children? Don’t endanger your retirement. Accidents happen.
Best.
The OP has stated in another thread that her 2014 income was close to $500,000 but that it varies. They are a high income family. All of the posts about merit money are very informative but my impression is the OP can afford top tier schools but doesn’t want to pay for “mediocre” schools to use the OP’s term.
@txstella But if the OP is full pay, why did she mention loans? Full pay is one thing, but she keeps saying that they’ll borrow money. If money is needed then they should at least consider trying for merit aid rather than making it all debt.
I may just be confused with all of her responses. I have the impression that a “big name” trumps financial considerations for the OP. Also, with such a high income, paying back loans may not be too difficult as she stated that income from her husband’s real estate ventures could be used for college.
I’ve been watching her threads because my family has a high EFC but with an income nowhere near the OPs. I appreciate the information about affordable schools because I am taking notes for my son. My son will probably not be applying to schools that will cost us $60k+ per year because we don’t want to go into debt.
Again, thank you, everyone for all the helpful information. I am humbled, truly.
On the question of income, I asked about financial aid because, as some have read on the other post, some years my husband makes 0 money and other years he makes a few hundred. So I promise there is no annual $500k income. I was just curious how the financial aid process treats cyclical income and how many years back they look. I wouldn’t say I’m concerned about paying for college, just trying to see if I should check the financial aid box or would I just be wasting everyone’s time.
Thanks for the information on legacy. My assumption was based on Hernandez’s book, which was admittedly written about the Ivies and apparently outdated, according to the contributors on this blog. Good to know … Also, since the Wisconsin application specifically asks whether a parent has attended “the campus to which you are applying” I find it puzzling that they care so little about it. There goes that idea …
@LeftofPisa, that is brilliant. One of my friends had suggested this and my daughter has mentioned the London School of Economics a couple of times. I will look into it.
To be honest, the reason I am coming off as so naive is that, prior to the “incident” I assumed that the kid would go to a top school, as long as she applied to enough and that, worst case scenario, she would go to UVA or William & Mary. Then, after the initial shock of “my kid will never go to college,” wore off, friends and family kept saying, “Oh, but the discipline issue will make a great essay. The admissions committee will love a kid that has gone through a difficult situation and made it through. It shows character.” Based on this clearly misinformed view, my idea of research was looking at colleges that have acceptance rates in the 30-40% range as safeties. Clearly, this is wishful thinking. Instead of taking a tour of the Northeast this summer, we will definitely be touring the South and the Midwest. There is no need to get her hopes up by visiting Providence.
I love the idea of public honors programs. I bookmarked the page posted by @MYOS1634 and almost stayed home from work to immerse myself in the information. Will do that now 
https://www.shc.psu.edu/admissions/faq/
Penn State’s honors program is looking pretty good. Rolling admissions and it’s not on the common app. Sounds like we have a winner.
In other news, I’m also loving London School of Economics and St. Andrews.
You do know admission to LSE is extremely competitive, right? The acceptance rate is in the single digits and the requirements are quire rigorous.
http://www.lse.ac.uk/study/informationForInternationalStudents/countryRegion/northAmerica/USA/entryRequirements.aspx
re #86:
“Bama is not a ‘southern’ school as people in the north would think. Its OOS contingent is over 50%,and there are every type of students there”
FWIW , data from a table created by University of Alabama Office of Institutional Research & Assessment titled " Students by Level and Geographic Origin" shows that, in 2012 ,58% of students were from Alabama, 16% were from “Contiguous Southern Regional Education Board (“SREB”) States”. 11% were from “Other SREB States”. Subtotal of these three is 85% of all students.
Then 11% were from “Outside SREB States”, and 4% were “Foreign”.
Penn State’s Schreyer Honors College is extremely competitive for admission (think Ivy level competitive). Admission is based primarily on answers to a multiple essay supplement. And although admission to Penn State is rolling, it is not a typical rolling admissions process. Notification of admission to Schreyer is not rolling and is in March. You might want to read some of the applicable threads in the Penn State forum.
I think Schreyer is a great idea actually. The issue ere isn’t that OP’s daughter isn’t competitive, it’s that nova white girls face tremendous competition in the northeast, that until now her parent was looking at dream schools(not that these are impossible, but rather reach for everyone) and that even a one in nine admission rate is better than odds at the previous schools, for a high level of academics and peer environment. And the drug infraction adds another
Schreyer disregards test scores and GPA. The only thing that matters is curriculum rigor, quality and originality of writing on three essays(the topics of which are chosen jointly by faculty and current students) and recommendations. The essays play a significant role and are read by faculty who are looking for intellectual engagement and originality.
The topics are published in July, the penne state app goes live on sept 1. Complete it then, you’lllikely get your admission answer quickly although schreyer only gives its decision in March.
Umd-cp uses test scores and be a good pick for a politics aficionado.
Macalester is probably worth looking into(Carleton too although it’s an automatic reach, not for politics but for intellectual kids)
Thanks, @monydad. That’s what I was thinking, as well, when I saw the over 50% OOS statistic.
Thanks, @kidzncatz. I will take a look at the Penn State thread. I wonder if they will admit to Penn State the university at first (thus a good safety), and then inform later whether one gets into the honors program? Or is it all or nothing in March?
@Sue22, I read somewhere that competition in the UK is very competitive but that American kids have a higher acceptance rate. You’re right about the rigorous requirements. I saw those last night. She’s taking 5 AP classes this year (including BC Calc) plus Physics Honors and will take 5 again next year.
William & Mary has a new joint degree program with St. Andrews. Your DD may have the best odds of admission into a VA school.
Great tip, @txstella - here’s a link to the admissions info for the joint program: http://www.wm.edu/as/undergraduate/curriculum/special/standrews/admission/index.php
@NewWaveMom, you’ve been a very good sport in responding here to some rather pointed posts. I know you’re a new member; as the (proud) mom of kids with degrees from UVA and W&M, can I just point out that referring to these schools as a “worst case scenario,” and Wisconsin as something that requires “sucking it up,” is a bit …well, offensive is too strong a word, but maybe off-putting? I’m sure you mean no offense. One benefit of sticking around CC for years is that you become much more aware of the many, many excellent schools here in the U.S. Just my unrequested 2 cents.
Good morning, @NewWaveMom,
I know you must be at least annoyed by the tsunami of posts to this thread. However, may I offer an additional (potentially helpful) thought for your consideration? In post #107, you said: “I assumed the kid would go to a top school, as long as she applied to enough . . .”.
As I’m sure you’ll understand, that approach come close to defying the principles of statistics. Yes, if you flip an “honest” coin enough times, it is probable that the number of heads and tails will be near-equal. However, admissions to the most-selective LACs and National Research Universities are NOT random events. Rather, these decisions are, in fact, all very largely based on a single and common dataset (i.e., your daughter’s GPA, curriculum, standardized test scores, ECs, recommendations, and so forth). Therefore, this situation is anything but random and it is likely that identical results may (often) be obtained. Simply illustrated, if an applicant – not you daughter – is assessed as a “sure admit” (or a “sure denial”) by HYP, there is a great likelihood he will be similarly evaluated by Stanford. Of course, there are some (a few?) “real world” exceptions to the foregoing concept – because these institutions judge independently and holistically, and because their “annual wants” are not entirely identical – but, in general, this concept is accurate.
The Sep 2014 figures are 49% from Alabama, 46% from other states, and the rest international.
@NewWaveMom Penn State’s admission offer would come before the Honors College decision. Penn State calls its admissions “rolling”, but that is really its own meaning of the term. Applicants with all parts of the general application in to Penn State by the priority date of Nov. 30 are notified by Jan. 31. Applicants at both ends of the spectrum (stats-wise) are often notified earlier, particularly those with high stats, who may hear as early as Oct. if the application is submitted in Sept. The Penn State forum threads attest to what appears to be a rather random process. I’m sure there must be some rhyme and reason to it, but it’s certainly not obvious to applicants and their parents. One good thing for out of state applicants is that Penn State does not give preference to instate students. It is quite happy to accept those higher OOS tuition dollars!
That (#117) looks close to the 2012 numbers for the graduate school alone.
I’ll show OP my chart:
http://oira.ua.edu/factwork/e_factbook/student-enrollment/trend/students-by-level-and-geographic-origin
Now you show yours.
But please, when you do that, include breakdowns for those “other states”. Or else your claim:
“Bama is not a ‘southern’ school as people in the north would think”
cannot really be substantiated. Because even people in the North understand that Alabama does not constitute the entire South.
It certainly isn’t substantiated by any of the data from 2012 or earlier that is tabulated in their factbook, as linked above. By that data, ‘Bama is exactly a "southern’ school as *this person in the North would think. And the most recent of that data was just three years ago.
To me, a school located in Alabama, surrounded by people who live in Alabama, and attended by over 2/3 students who come from the South is a “southern school”. If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, flies, and when you cook it, it tastes like duck, maybe it’s duck.
But that;s just my opinion.