Discipline issue

Applying to College
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@NewWaveMom You have managed a terrific wave of great information – hang in there!

On UW, where my kid is a double history and poll sci major, let me add – UW requires all original transcripts from all high schools attended, not just the transfer of grades from school 1 onto transcript for school 2. So, if there is anything on school 1 transcript regarding the disciplinary issue, you will want to think about how to handle that. At a minimum, get a copy of school 1 transcript so you know what is on there.

UW is a top notch education at a reasonable cost. OOS tuition is increasing a bit, but will end up around $30,000 in two years, when your daughter would be a freshman. Still a bargain, when privates will likely be $50,000 at the same time. Many east and west coast kids attend UW. Generally, an OOS (out of state) kid with high stats (3.8+ unweighted gpa in very demanding curriculum, and a 30+ ACT,) plus solid essays, especially able to speak to why UW, should get in. Keep it on your list, and legacy does count, I believe, as a “considered” factor, though does not rise to the level of “important” or even “Very important.”

Hang in there, there is a steep learning curve. You are getting lots of good advice, and are taking it all in.

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@Midwestmomofboys, thanks for the tip on the high school transcripts. Luckily, my daughter was not expelled so there is nothing on the transcript but A’s and a couple of weeks of absences due to the suspension. We withdrew her from the school system because they “reassigned” her to another school in the county that didn’t have any honors classes. I’m actually getting excited about UW; I still wouldn’t call it a safety (I’m thinking Penn State or Pittsburgh could be safeties, since they also have rolling admission) but I feel good about the grades (only one B in Calc BC) and 32 ACT. We are planning a visit during Labor Day weekend. Since your kid is studying what mine probably will, would you happen to know what the internship possibilities are? Any Washington/Capitol Hill related opportunities that you know of? I was thinking, since Madison is the capital, there are probably interesting opportunities for political wonks.

@TopTier, agree with you 100% on the statistical concept :slight_smile: The problem is we’re dealing with a random variable.

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If you plan to do any official tours during Labor Day weekend, I would strongly suggest you contact the schools. My kid worked in admissions and they were very closed that weekend. Totally shut down.

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@thumper1 – thanks a million! I just checked and there are no information sessions scheduled in September yet. Perhaps we will go the last weekend in August.

On the subject of safeties, does anyone think Villanova is a good option? (We are not Christian or religious, but I read a few reviews on Yelp that described the students as preppy and J Crew catalog-like. In that sense, my daughter would fit in.) It’s supposed to have a decent business school, but what about gov/poli sci/econ etc.?

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@NewWaveMom – as for internship possibilities, UW has been great resource for him, there are a number of school year and summer programs, including a summer poli sci class for credit for students interning in DC and scholarship money for students doing their first internship for whom working without pay is a concern. Both Poli Sci and History departments regularly email majors with internship opportunities in Madison and beyond. My kid pretty easily got great opportunities for summer internships, without having to stress too much about the process. UW’s reputation, a solid undergrad transcript, and good phone interview manner got him where he wanted to go for the summer!

My kid’s profs have been fabulous about writing recommendations for him, talking with him about this plans etc. Part of those relationships have been facilitated by his participation in the Honors program at UW, which is not stat-based, but rather essentially a “write on” – all admitted students are invited to apply, the idea is, everyone could do the extra work, but not everyone wants to. In Honors sections of lecture classes, the prof leads the discussion section rather than a TA (Ph.D. student), so that has really facilitated him developing good relationships with profs. He has gotten to know truly world class scholars and intellects in his field, plus nothing beats Badger football, basketball, hockey, the Farmer’s Market on a Saturday morning, the Terrace on a summer afternoon, Lake Mendota pretty much any time of year . . . .

Apply before the first deadline, usually by end of October, and you will get an answer in January sometime – the answer can be “accept,” “reject” or the dreaded UW “postpone” – which means they will consider the applicant with the next wave. But an OOS kid with strong stats who shows reasonable interest and can write an intelligent essay, stands a very good chance of being admitted.

In terms of application strategy, I would still recommend having some other Early Action candidates that report before the end of December, so that you might be able to remove some extra safety/match schools from the list and lessen the essay writing burden.

As for Labor Day visits, UW classes usually begin right after Labor Day so I would check the timing for official tours. You definitely want that visit noted in a file somewhere.

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Newwave…you need to contact the admissions offices. Most are open all,summer long. Many take a break of a couple of weeks between the end of their summer sessions, and the start of classes for the fall term.

At my son’s school, move in was August 31…admissions was closed from about August 20 to mid-September.

At my daughter’s school…which was on quarters and started in mid-September, the admissions office was closed the last week of August and the first week of September. BUT no tours were conducted until the very end of September because there were no students to conduct them.

You really need to contact the colleges. There are a bunch that don’t do tours or info sessions the first couple of weeks of classes either.

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Please look at the Admissions blog for William and Mary where they discuss the review of a student that had a disciplinary infraction in his record. I think you will find it insightful. http://wmblogs.wm.edu/admiss/overheard-in-committee-2014-early-decision-edition-part-2/

If you aren’t comfortable with schools in the south that is ok. I attended a Deep South SEC school and I loved it, but I also know how the south can be outside of the college towns those schools are in. I lived almost my whole life in the south - it can be wonderful, but it can also be hard to fit in.

I also live in Virginia and honestly, we are blessed to have so many wonderful colleges here. Check them out first before you go hauling all across the country. CNU, JMU, VCU, Va Tech, GMU are all great schools. UVA and W&M may be a reach with the infraction, especially coming from NoVA. I would think acceptance to Radford, Longwood, UMW, and ODU would be likely. Univ. of Richmond would also be a reach.

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Thank you, @vamominvabeach. This makes me feel hopeful. It’s imperative that the essay be genuinely remorseful and that the admissions committee realize that this was one-time infraction.

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^I agree. It is hopeful to see that admission committee understand that young people make mistakes and can learn from them. You are fortunate to have some great in-state schools as well.

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I’m not sure if you want her to write an essay about it though. There is a place on the common app to address discipline issues and another section separate from the essay where you can add other pertinent info. Also note that in the William and Mary example they mentioned the applicants strong recommendations that addressed his character.

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“However, she was bullied into it, etc. and will definitely make a good essay out of it.”

This approach may not do her a lot of favors. Schools want to see students own their mistakes, and not try to push off the blame to others. Saying that she was bullied into it verges heavily into that territory IMO.

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Bard’s somewhat more selective and cerebral than Hampshire - probably more hipster than outdoorsy-hippie in vibe - but it attracts many of the same students.

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@arabrab, that is true. I see that now. Another poster also pointed out that, in addition to sounding like she is not accepting the blame, it would make my daughter seem like an outsider that is prone to being bullied. While she didn’t fit in with the edgy drummers in the marching band, she wasn’t an outsider in the school (she was class president the previous year). That is all the more reason that I am very anxious that she end up in an environment that is intellectually challenging. I’m really much more in favor of the public schools that have honors programs than the in-state safeties such as ODU, Radford, etc. that would have fewer resources than the large flagship schools.

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You should check out the honors and PLP programs at Christopher Newport Univ.

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Thanks, @vamominvabeach. She would rather go to a less exclusive school with a brand name than a regional school. Although, confusingly (and despite my excitement) she is against Penn State’s honors college and says VCU’s honors program would be just as good. I just posted another thread asking for opinions comparing these two… why are teenagers so difficult??

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She may be thinking the word ‘State’ in “Penn State” indicates a directional (like “Cal State”). It doesn’t - Penn State is the State’s flagship, like UVA is in VA. Of course, UVA is much better than Penn State, but Penn State overall is better than VCU, and Schreyer is closer in level to UVA than to VCU (even Honors). That 1 in 9 acceptance ratio should give her a clue it’s a very exclusive club to belong to :D:D
BTW, she should apply to several Honors Programs/colleges… it’s not VCU OR PSU, it’s VCu AND PSU AND X and Y AND Z. :slight_smile:

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@MYOS1634, yes, agree. She’ll apply to UT and Wisconsin honors programs as well.

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Hi all, wanted to provide an update, in case this information becomes helpful to someone else in this situation in years to come. Thanks to the many excellent suggestions on this site, we did work with an admissions consultant, who gave us excellent advice and a lot of hope. The consultant advised my D to put the discipline issue front and center and to write the main common app essay about it. Although she was very reluctant at first, after many attempts, the essay was really great. They key was to accept responsibility, show remorse and to explain what she learned from the experience.

My daughter ended up applying ED to Cornell and EA to our state school, UVA. She was denied at Cornell. The Cornell dean of admissions ended up talking to us personally, stating that they were interested in her but that the admissions committee needed a statement from her former high school. Frankly, we panicked and ended up mishandling the issue and having to release the entire discipline case to them. Needless to say, she was denied. On the other end of the spectrum, UVA accepted her without question. So much for the “liberal” view I thought Cornell (my alma mater) had. Oh well. So, if you have a discipline issue that you’re planning on disclosing, cross Cornell off your list.

Because of this disappointment (and my D somewhat regrets this now) she ended up not applying to Brown, Penn and other ivies. We went into “hedge” mode.

We took the advice on this website and applied to a bunch of UK schools, which don’t ask the discipline question. She ended up writing a “new” common app essay for University of St Andrews and then used the UCAS to apply to the London School of Economics, Univ. of Edinburgh and a couple of others in London. She got into all of them – even LSE! We’re going to London in a month for offer holders day to see if she would prefer LSE over UVA.

Other schools she ended up applying to (but hasn’t heard from yet) are: Berkeley, NYU, Johns Hopkins, Amherst, Williams, Wesleyan, Tufts and Vanderbilt. She also applied to William & Mary and Va Tech, but withdrew her Tech application, once the UVA acceptance came. She was going to apply to Univ. Of Wisconsin but after getting into UVA, there was no point in doing so.

Hope this information is helpful. I’ll provide an update on the other schools in a few weeks. So thankful this process is over and hoping she makes a choice that will maximize her chances for happiness.

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Thank you for the update. Very informative. I look forward to the results that will come in 2 weeks from now!

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I was suspended for distributing earlier this year and I was still accepted into Vanderbilt early decision :slight_smile:

…maybe this is why vandy has a less than stellar reputation for drug safety