Parent of an attorney who is practicing in NYC:
Take the most affordable option
Get A’s and lots of them, if the school gives A+s even better
Study, study, study and kill the LSAT
the only thing that really matters in law school admissions is LSAT and GPA
then attend the best law school that you can afford. If you want NYC (Big law) her chances of getting big law is better
if she attends a T-14 school and does well (which is why I said save your money for Columbia Law)
LFC is outside of Chicago, has a semester in Chicago program, and offers automatic scholarships that would bring costs close to your price range:
https://www.lakeforest.edu/admissions/scholarships/
Probably could knock off a few semesters with AP’s as well.
Also, she’s not stuck at any particular college for all 4 years when you consider that there are study-abroad programs, National Student Exchange, and “semester in ” programs: https://chicagosemester.org/
Note that not all northern places are that liberal or progressive in all aspects. For example, Chicago is commonly cited as one of the most racially segregated cities in the US.
“I will be a happy camper if I never hear the words “donut hole” again.”
A couple of thoughts on this. There are a couple of ways that I don’t think think Federal student aid has kept up with the realities of the college market. First is that the Pell grants and Stafford loans levels have stayed the same since my oldest was applying to college in 2012. I suspect that that was the case for several years prior. The cost of an education has increased considerably since then. Second, has the means of calculating EFC changed as the costs of an education have increased? I’m not sure since it’s not a very transparent process. If not then it seems this would cause the “donut hole” to get larger as more and more familie’s incomes do not keep up with the increase in college tuition.
A second thought is that hard work and perseverance put you in the position to have good things happen. It doesn’t guarantee them. Just because someone is bright enough to get into XX Ivy or etc. doesn’t mean they will and if they do they can afford it. Hard work does not create an entitlement to such an education. If a university accepts a student that does not require them to provide financing. If a university accepts a student it also does not require the parents to finance it. Income does limit choices. It does so in all facets of life. The good news is that most of us have educational opportunities even if they aren’t necessarily the ones we “dream” of.
The max pell grant in 2012 was $5500 for a family with a 0 EFC. For 2019-2020, the max Pell grant for a family with a 0 EFC is 6195.
Even then with the exception of a small handful of students attending schools that meet 100% demonstrated need, admitted through Questbridge, are part of opportunity programs or are receiving major scholarships like GMS most 0 EFC students are attending their local colleges and commuting from home because most FAFSA only schools are not meeting 100% demonstrated need.
UCHICAGO is not going to be very flexible. Very rare to get merit aid, and NMF gets you $2,000 off the $80,000 COA. They use the federal formula and expect students to contribute $5,000/year on top of parents. There is not a choice of meal plans to lower cost, AP and IB scores have to be super high for any credit, and if you move off campus they will reduce aid. Aid can vary year to year. Siblings in grad school not considered and no appeals unless there has been a major life change or medical expenses above 11% of income. Admissions officers are awesome.
If you are unable to afford Columbia then I absolutely would not let her apply there. It is the same as taking her to the Porsche dealership, letting her test drive a 911 and then saying, sorry, too expensive, we can only afford a Kia. It is better to set firm boundaries now IMO.
I second @sybbie719. I have many law school clients. It is ALL about grades and the LSAT. And law school prospects are very well informed about which LSAT’s get students into various law schools. They openly share admissions info (stats, aid, etc.) online. It is kind of a buyer’s market for law school still, as baby boomers continue to retire, the glut of attributes will shrink. Law schools are competing hard for students, but naturally the top ones don’t have to fight hard (but much harder than they had to 15-20 years ago).
That being said, prestigious law firms in NYC will be completely status conscious in terms of law school brand. Your money is better spent on lawn school brand than undergrad brand. Pick undergrad institution on ability to succeed. Rock that LSAT! Eye on the prize - very solid law school. Great summer internships/clerkships.
At first when I read all of these posts I rolled my eyes a bit. Another full pay/higher EFC family whining about their kids limited choices because the family doesn’t have their EFC.
But wait…we were kind of like you just a few years ago. Standing in the bustling city of Boston, watching my southern daughter’s eyes light up (we are from Texas, she strongly dislikes most things Texas…the heat, her uber conservative peers who live and breathe to attend Baylor University, etc. etc.) and telling her “you could go to school here!” And then doing a google search that led us here and realizing those schools were off the table. Our budget was also $30K per year.
Flash forward a few years later and it’s all fine. The disappointment was really just a passing deep sigh once she learned about debt and affordability and quite frankly, that for her major especially, it doesn’t really matter where she attends. She knows we work hard for what we have and she wants us to have a decent retirement. My ACT 34, #10/700 kid found her place at the University of Pittsburgh and made it affordable by taking the ACT a few times to increase her score and get solid merit there. She loves her city campus and all it offers and is there this summer on her first engineering co-op.
Anyway, all that to say…kids are resilient. They can be encouraged to find their way and to make their world wherever they need. They just need their parents to acknowledge the loss of the dream and to encourage building a new one. You guys can do this together.
@carachel2, your daughter’s story was exactly the same as my daughter’s story. From Texas and needed to leave but we could not afford the OOS prices. She ended up at Pitt in engineering on a great merit scholarship. She graduated 2 years ago and actually came back to Austin. She has a great job and no debt. We went to Pittsburgh to look at CMU but could not afford it but found Pitt instead. Things do work out.
I let my daughter apply to schools last year that we had we had no ability to be able to afford and she got into them. Her dream school and #2 and #3. She is a high stats kid and we got lots of merit $ but those school also cost alot of money so that 529 money was just not enough for her to ber able to go to those dream schools.
I didn’t have all of this education that you have right now. I want you to think about this. Your child applies to Columbia…gets in. You have to sit at the kitchen table and tell them they can’t go. I did this last year. It wasn’t to Columbia it was to my child’s dream school but it was so so bad. There was screaming/crying/threats/I hate my life/etc. Other kids were crying. I have hives just thinking about it. Avoid at all costs. Please!
Thank you for sharing that, @mom517. I’ve known families where the kids said they understood that schools had to come off the table if they didn’t get enough aid but they wanted the parents to let them apply just to see if they could get in. The parents reluctantly agreed, but when the acceptances came without enough money all of a sudden the kids couldn’t understand why they couldn’t go.
“If we really couldn’t afford it,” they said, “why did you even let me apply?!”
It’s not a situation I’d want to be in.
@mom517 Is she happy now or at least not still upset?
@Madison85 She is happy : )
@LookAtMyShoes : have you run the NPC on Barnard?
Definitely check out Fordham. Sure, it’s Catholic, but it’s very different from Texas-religious.
Bryn Mawr is right outside Philadelphia.
Mount Holyoke, URochester, Macalester, American U, Lewis&Clark, UPugetSound, Willamette, Dickinson.
Perhaps also Pitt (aim for 1500), Temple, UVermont, UMaryland, UMN Twin Cities.
There are progressive places about everywhere - what about Agnes Scott in Atlanta (if the new GA law isn’t too off-putting/on the other hand it’d be an ideal college from which to mobilize and fight that law).
@MYOS1634 ,
If family cannot afford Columbia, what will make Barnard affordable?
It’s a long shot, but not all colleges consider home equity/value in calculating net costs and OP mentioned it Ade a difference. It would also be in Barnard’s interest not to calculate the same way as Columbia. Long shot but worth trying since it takes 20mn and is free.
Your daughter doesn’t need to attend college in New York to be a lawyer there.
It would be better for her to attend an affordable undergraduate college and law school, so she can afford to live in New York City later.
She could apply to University of Pittsburgh.
Great city, she might get merit there to bring it down to $30,000.
There are great schools out there where she could get merit at.
The ones she favors happen to mostly only give need based aid. That’s the problem.