I will confess that other than if one wants to go into Investment banking or management consulting, I don’t really get what the benefits of going to one of these HYPSM schools or whatever other “T” whatever schools people perceive to be at the tippy top over other options which give an excellent education and solid career options. I get that those two fields still recruit disproportionately at a few places (similar to big law firms and certain law schools). But otherwise, I don’t get why it matters in 2025 other than ego.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not knocking those schools. They are places where one can get a first rate education and that provide great opportunities. But, they are not unique at all in that. There are other options that can give just as much, if not more, for what most people want out of college beyond bragging rights.
It’s a simple matter of statistics. Just think how few places there are in top schools. And then estimate how many kids there are with top stats. There’s just no comparison. Parents need to explain this to their kids at the very beginning of the college search process. Choose some “safety” schools and be thankful wherever you get in.
Yeah, my parenting philosophy is first I should help my kids have an excellent childhood, which includes developing in all the important ways, intellectually, socially, creatively, physically, ethically, and so on.
But what that actually means for any given kid can vary a lot, and my job isn’t to determine exactly which sort of person they should be. Rather, I am supposed to help them develop into a thriving, happy version of whatever sort of person they end up wanting to be. Which is a process, and likely won’t be close to completion when they leave my household. Indeed, I don’t think it should ever end. But I can do what I can to support them on their journey.
OK, then if college is the right next step for them, I can help them get college offers that would really make sense for them. But I don’t want to start with a college list and make them develop into the sort of applicant those particular colleges might be looking for. I want to support my kid’s healthy development, and then if and when the time comes, help my kid choose colleges that are actually the right fit for them.
When this really clicks, it is sometimes called a two-way fit. The kid is authentically excited about the college actually making sense for them. The college is authentically excited about the kid actually making sense for THEM. That doesn’t guarantee a great college experience, but I think it loads the odds as much in the kid’s favor as you can.
In fairness to OP, while I disagree with the, what I presume is parental pressure, it appears they are at a high achieving school, where kids likely attend for this outcome.
So I can understand the concern in that sense - they’re paying to get something that they don’t feel that they received.
That, of course, is a bigger issue - that this pay to play even exists.
I note if you look at admissions results for a lot of such secondary schools, it isn’t so much that they get a few extra students into T5s and then the rest of the kids just get whatever. Pretty much down the distribution of selective colleges, their applicants are getting admitted at higher rates than a simple combination of test scores and class ranks can explain. Like, in a given score/rank range, their acceptance rate for a given T20, highly competitive OOS public, or so on might also be on the order of 3 times what you would expect based on that college’s general stats.
I don’t think that is as simple as just the name of the secondary school giving you a boost. I think some of it is just correlation, like lots of legacies and other savvy parents. Some of it might be more per capita opportunities to distinguish yourself, in academics or activities. Deeper teacher relationships leading to better-informed recommendations. And in fact some of it might be really good college counseling, where they actually do a good job helping kids find selective colleges that really make sense for them.
But in any event, I think they are mostly pretty clear about this, if you are willing to listen. They can’t guarantee getting everyone into a T5 or whatever. But they can offer lots of opportunities for your kid to do many different cool things as their interests develop, then help them come up with a list of colleges that actually makes sense for them.
I don’t know OP’s specifics but I’m inferring from their words…..they are paying lots of $$ or attending a school that costs lots of $$ - so perhaps this part isn’t happening
Talking frankly to some people who do selective HS admissions, this is apparently a big problem for them. I don’t know the OP, of course, but selective high schools all seem to face this issue where they are trying to explain what a great HS experience they can offer, and sometimes the parent is hearing how great the HS will be for college admissions.
And even if the parent is told in some way it doesn’t really work that way, almost all these high schools do publish lists of recent college admissions. And even if the HS is actually equally proud of all the kids going to the wide variety of colleges on the list, indeed is proud OF that variety, some parents will apparently just pick off the names they like best and see that as the value proposition.
Again, I cannot stress enough I am in no position to suggest this describes the OP in particular. But I do know it is a common problem that selective high schools face. They are trying to promote themselves in one way, and some parents are hearing something else, and this can lead to clash down the road.
Having top 3 choices in HYPSM is problematic mainly due to the fact that these schools are so different from each other in so many aspects. It would be extremely difficult to make a compelling argument for fit for 3 of them. By argument, I mean everything that is involved in a 4-year high school experience.
I’ve talked to some HYPSM admissions officers about this. The theme I heard is that its about the consistent quality of preparation. They KNOW the kid can handle the work, even if the scores are a little light. GPA at those schools doesn’t necessarily mean much — the relative ranking is much more important.
At my kids’ top public school, they don’t get enough HYPSM to have that type of reputation. However, some T20s they’re getting 3+/year and there’s a clear pipeline (conversely some T20s have a 1-2% admit rate).
Spoke recently to a friend whose kid went to a top private HS nearby (probably 300K+ invested) and got in ED to a T75. He seemed really positive about the experience – I know a lot of public school parents in the same town who would not be pleased.
I know more kids who are emotionally mature enough to handle a two-way fit than parents.
That’s not 100% fair - I think a person could be a “fit” to the engineering at P, S, and M - but then probably not at H, Y. Or a “fit” to the humanities at P, H, and Y - but then likely not at M. But I think three of them isn’t an impossible stretch.
That said, even though DS1 applied HYPM, DS2 cut HY and added S for that reason (STEM).
And I always question when STEM students then look (for the next tier) at Dartmouth, Brown instead of state flagships… Don’t hate on me for saying D, B are next tier for STEM relative to MPS please.
I was just commenting to the previous poster who noted it was problematic. I was just noting - some families likely don’t look past the name to measure fit.
That we have an acronym and it’s used shows you that.
True but in fairness, we are all wired differently.
‘My daughter wanted to apply to Cornell and I said, only if you pay. Why? I limited her to $50K and I wasn’t going to get need. In fact, when I called Cornell to ask why not, I was surprised at the low net worth they listed - they said if you have a million in assets, no one is going to give you. I don’t know if it’s true but it’s what they said. W&L was worse - they said 2x income at my income - which is nothing extravagant. That was 2019.
Other parents live their lives at a different level or a different choice matrix than I do - whether they’re a country club set or just have expectations that greatly differ.
So we are all different - and some of these schools cater to these different subsets.
A kid who is possibly but not definitely interested in majoring in Applied Math but also has many “domain” type interests across the humanities and social sciences (not “minoring” in literature…. but deep interests in poli sci, econ, sociology, art history etc.) isn’t a prestige %^& for thinking that Brown is possibly a “better fit” than their own state flagship which requires declaring a major upfront, and where moving in and out of different disciplines can be bureaucratic and complicated.
A kid in NJ who is interested in Life Sciences and wants a rural, “off the beaten track” environment isn’t crazy for thinking that Dartmouth is a better fit than Rutgers.
It’s fashionable on CC to claim that every kid who doesn’t conform to our own stated preferences is choosing a college via US News Rankings. But that’s not always the case. And it’s not fair to castigate a kid who has well reasoned rationale for preferring A vs. B.
What IS true is the kid who really and truly wants to major in finance and comes up with a list of colleges that don’t have a finance major. And then the kid tortures themself into “I’ll major in Behavioral Economics which is just like finance”. No, it’s not.
This seems an odd take to me. Not the “next tier” part, I don’t know enough to have an opinion on that or even care about it. But, the notion that it is questionable why a STEM student would want to go to Brown or Dartmouth over their state flagship is a curious take. There are so many differences in going to this rural college or mid-sized university to going to a state flagship it seems self-evident to me the numerous reasons why a STEM student could legitimately choose one over the other. Brown’s open curriculum alone sets it apart from pretty much every flagship, as a basic example. And that is not even accounting for the wide variability in state flagships depending on where one is from.
Absent specific information on the student, I have a hard time imagining questioning choosing flagship or one of these two schools as a general matter for a generic STEM student.
agree, and even then I distinctly remember (30ish years ago) getting the Princeton glossy mailer with a stat saying they only accepted something like 30% of Valedictorians. I am not at all saying it wasn’t easier then, it definitely was – Penn was a good friend’s safety at my prep school, it was my target! – but it wasn’t like we thought we would get into all of the Ivys if we applied to all. Nothing was a given.
Top 6 things I did for my younger kid’s HYPSM chances.
Kid found a niche used instrument on Craigslist and I bought it at their request. Found the only teacher in the area, supported years of lessons, a niche festival and more. Also doubled up on other instruments (more Craigslist finds) so they could keep one at school and one at home
I searched for summer programs and gave them a long list of options for past couple summers. They applied to the ones that sounded most interesting and attended a couple - one a highly selective national STEM program that was the perfect pre-college experience, the other was a unique-to-our-state program that was not ultra selective (didn’t ask for grades, etc). Kid ultimately centered their Personal Essay around the experience of that local program.
Suggested they try Model UN, when they liked it I suggested they try Youth And Government, when they liked it even more I suggested they lean in and run for officer, and maybe high school student government.
Supported kid when they switched from soccer to XC… they liked soccer but coaching was more miss that hit and the XC environment was excellent.
Pushed kid to have a bit more STEM activity in Junior year, since they are leaning towards a STEM major. Settled on Science Olympiad (meh experience, not continuing), a couple math competitions with minimal prep (liked enough to repeat senior year), and taking the USNCO exam (did well enough to make National round which they enjoyed but didn’t earn further awards)
Suggested they take multiple classes with the teachers they liked most and were probably going to ask for recommendations
