Diversity and Greek Life

Parents Forum
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I’m a little confused because your opening post says neither of you are crazy about the idea of Greek life, but then you seem to want her to join a sorority. There are a lot of midsized universities that are more diverse than a lot of LACs. Why worry about the racial makeup of various sororities? There are plenty of colleges that don’t rely on Greek life for a student to meet people and form close friendships.

Look at the percentages of Greek life. I’d think that a college with 25% or less Greek life will have good options for socializing.

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Many sororities have chapter web sites linked from the college’s sorority life page. These often have photo albums.

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@Lindagaf, you’ re absolutely right, but my picky D seems to want some things that are not altogether compatible, so we’re trying to parse what is the best compromise. What you are talking about is hard to find within the not-too-far-from home parameter she has set.

She does want a large LAC or very small university with a pretty campus, mainstream-liberal vibe, no urban campus, she does want an environment where people of all types and races mix easily whether there happens to be a lot of diversity at the school or not. She doesn’t especially want Greek life but if there happens to be a lot of it she doesn’t want to be an outlier. And I kind of detect some excitement about the idea of a sorority even as she says she doesn’t like Greek life and dislikes the idea of alcohol more than her parents ever did, lol.

The sticky part is, she doesn’t want to go more than a five or six-hour drive away (two to three is better) and a flight would be difficult for visits home as we live two hours from any airport. If she could get in, (or If they were closer) schools like Bates, Haverford or William & Mary might be fantastic social fits but they’d be super-reaches for admittance. She has the grades and rigor (within the context of an average high school), has just found out she’s tied for #1 rank in her school so far, she has sky-high ERW but disproportionately low math scores (both SAT and ACT) fine ECs from a local standpoint but nothing that would stand out for T-30 schools. Except for one school (which she likes a lot but is not convinced is her favorite) all the schools that meet the descriptions above that appeal to her have pretty high Greek participation so…I’m trying to figure out just how exclusive vs warm and fuzzy Greek life tends to be…or encourage her to travel further, go to the flagship or just ED at that one nice LAC an easy drive away with only 25 percent Greek participation, where I believe she’d be admitted with open arms.

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Thanks, @ucbalumnus.

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Sorority membership reflects the school’s make up and diversity. If the schools you are looking at are only 2-6% Asian, the sororities aren’t going to be more diverse than that. If you want more Asians, you need to look at schools in California or Texas or NYC, not in small rural areas.

I am in a sorority and both of my kids joined them too. One of my kids is also a Chinese adoptee but is 100% American (music, food, dress, friends), and she joined a chapter of my sorority. She was not the only Asian or the only adoptee in her chapter. There are only 3 sororities on her campus (only 27% of the students are women) and she received invitations to join all 3. IMO, race and looks had nothing to do with anyone receiving bids at that school.

If you look at the chapter photos from our chapters at MIT, RPI, Case Western, Yale, there are a lot of Asians because there are a lot of Asians at those schools. If you look at California chapters, you are going to see a lot of diversity but still a lot of blondes. If you look at Montana or Nebraska chapter photos, not a lot of diversity. If the school itself is diverse, the sororities are too. In the olden days when I was at school, there wasn’t a lot of racial diversity, but we really were a diverse group in religion, SES, and majors - we had a ton of engineers at a time when there weren’t a lot of women in engineering.

We lived in the south while my kids were in high school, and my Chinese daughter went to college in the south. It is different and there are still a lot of racial and religious issues, and people are excluded from clubs and activities. I felt we had to be aware of the issues but not changed because of them. We looked at one school and I just thought “no way” - too small, too rural, too ‘twin sweater set with pearls.’ There was a group of Chinese students on campus getting settled in over the summer to start classes in the fall, and I knew my daughter wouldn’t fit in with them either. They were Chinese and she was American.

My kids were raised in a world where Disney princesses included Jasmine and Mulan and Pocahontas. My kids never mention skin color when describing other humans but will say “the guy wearing the green shirt” or “the girl with the blond hair and glasses.” There are plenty of other kids in that generation who are the same, don’t see racial differences and look for similarities first when looking for friends at college. I was raised by Archie Bunker and have to struggle to not see race first, but they are a different generation.

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Thanks, @twoinanddone, I feel as if I’ve written a book but not made myself clear.

I’ll try to be concise. My D is not so much expecting or even wanting a certain percentage of Asian students per se.( She’s used to being in the one percent.) She is simply wanting a place where students DO mix , with respect to whatever diversity happens to exist at that school (whether 2 percent or 50 percent Asian or any other race) and to not experience barriers ( more than any other person ) because of her outward appearance. That’s all. We’re quite aware that there are places that are extremely diverse racially, yet where students still self-segregate. THAT would be the hardest of all, because she does not feel particularly Asian, with respect to culture.

As I stated in an earlier post, she also grew up around Mulan, Pocahontas and Jasmine and told by others she HAD to portray one of those, whereas the white kids around her could choose Pocahontas, Jasmine, Mulan OR Cinderella, Belle, Snow White…

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I’ll put my 2 cents in here regarding Greek life/sororities:

In some schools the sororities are very diverse and in some schools, not so much. That likely reflects the culture of that particular campus. I am a member of a large national sorority and when I see pictures of chapters some of them are indeed very white, very blonde, girls are very thin, etc. Other chapters have a lot of diversity (not just token POC). I know that some schools have chapters that are full with legacies and it’s difficult for anyone else to get in. My own chapter in the midwest had only a handful of legacies, and many of us (including me) were first gen college students.

My own D attended an urban school which was only 1% Greek so sorority life wasn’t even on her radar. Several of her HS friends pledged at other schools and they were not necessarily the ones I would have guessed would be interested. It just happened that they found a group of young women they liked and felt comfortable with. Funny thing is that several of my friends who were “anti-Greek” (mostly because they attended schools with no Greek system) were the ones whose daughters joined. I would advise that both you and your D keep an open mind.

But even in schools with a large percentage of Greeks (mine was 30% - then and now), there are still a lot of social opportunities. I had friends at college who were not Greek and they were very involved in other campus activities.

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In the Garden- you are missing Twoin’s point.

We get that your D isn’t looking for a high Asian representation, but doesn’t want to end up as the token “Whatever” in college.

Twoin’s point is that you can’t find what isn’t there. The likelihood of your D feeling marginalized at a small college with a predominant student body- mostly white and/or suburban and/or affluent and/or Methodist and/or Daughters of the American Revolution And/or whatever… that’s the issue. The “thicker” the non-normative group of kids on campus, the greater the likelihood that your D will find open-minded, not ethnically-defined friends on campus, of all stripes, orientations, interests, skills, persuasions, etc.

One of the women in my freshman year dorm (in the dark ages, I know) was the daughter of missionaries. She had grown up in small villages in various parts of the world, and told us during orientation exercises that she was nervous because her life experiences were so different than everyone else’s.

Guess what- no. She hadn’t seen the TV shows that everyone else watched- but there was a woman who was blind who hadn’t seen them either. Her family wasn’t affluent even though she was well traveled, and there were plenty of kids “on scholarship” as it was known back then. She wasn’t able to go back home on breaks-- but there were kids whose parents were divorced, or divorcing, and they didn’t want to go home either, so they made their own “families”. And kids with non-normative (for the times) sexual orientations who felt like the odd-people out, and they were always welcoming of someone non-judgmental who didn’t need to stick them in a particular category or box.

You are looking for mixing which goes beyond race, ethnicity and country of origin- and I get that. So start looking for “diversity” which goes beyond those things- and you are more likely to find that in places that have large chunks of “different” to begin with. Otherwise your D and the missionary kid are going to have to like each other, because there may not be anyone else for them to find!!!

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@Blossom, I guess you may be right…but if. true, it’s pretty sad if, in 2020 a kid whose ONLY non-normative quality is her race and that fact that she came into her family through adoption as an infant, would have to consider that as such a defining feature in college selection in order to find a social group; that her social choices would be limited to the missionary kid and the blind kid at a LAC (Not that she’d reject them on these qualities.)

If anything, I think her worst fear growing up has been to be regarded as a freak of some sort and she has been very careful to be a kid who CAN blend in. She has politically progressive Ideas (like you!d find at all but the most conservative or religious colleges) but is very mainstream-to-preppy in presentation. She Is sympathetic to non-normative people of all kinds but finds some of the more dramatic expressions of that annoying when she perceives them to be a shout-out for a “look at me, I’m so alternative/cool ” sort of attention-getting ploy more than a genuine difference… At this point in her life she doesn’t feel comfortable with SJW activities, for example , though I‘ve taken part in a few demonstrations, myself (I would say that I’m more unconventional than my kid, despite the fact that I did grow up in a Methodist household in the Deep South and have at least one ancestor who settled near Jamestown not long after the Mayflower, lol).

She,s a classic kind of kid who likes classic, rather quiet environments and doesn’t get bored easily. She likes visiting cities like NYC but feels a pressing need to leave after two or three days of intensity. . She likes keeping the same few friends for years (so I don’t think a LAC would be suffocating). High school class of only 141 but sees the same 15 kids in her classes. My D grew up on classical ballet (hates contemporary), violin and equestrian lessons until she grew afraid of the higher jumping and was the kid who was reading Louisa May Alcott and Jane Austen by choice In elementary school. why am I saying all these random things? Her whole personality quietly screams “classic LAC” and it would be sad if she chose, but couldn’t find a social fit at schools like Lafayette or F&M because she has dark hair and somewhat almond eyes. If she were white and I described her personality and academic profile I don’t think people would steer her away from these LACs, or maybe they would suggest similar ones in the Eastern U.S that tend to be friendly.

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Ha…sorry, I’m aware that the Mayflower =Plymouth, not Jamestown but it’s too late to edit that small point and you get the jist.

Everyone, you’ve given me lots to think about, and I will. But I don’t want to beat a dead horse, here, and I’m afraid more will become uncomfortable and repetitive. If anyone has any specific suggestions of schools, feel free to PM me. Otherwise, mods, feel free to close this thread. Thanks to all…

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If you described your D without the adoption/racial issues I’d be suggesting Skidmore, Vasser, Conn College, Bard, Sarah Lawrence, Goucher, Brandeis, Bryn Mawr, Wellesley, Clark, Muhlenberg, American. And there’s no reason (besides distance) that your D shouldn’t check out those colleges as well.

I have a personal “thing” about Lafayette or F&M because of “Bro Culture” which does not sound like what your D is looking for-- which I would mention, regardless of a kid’s ancestry. It works for some people and not for others- and I respect that.

Are there apolitical kids at Reed or Grinnell? yes. If a kid tells me that they don’t want a highly political campus, or don’t want to be surrounded by SJW’s, I wouldn’t voluntarily suggest Reed, Grinnell, Wesleyan or a bunch of similar. That has nothing to do with race, ethnicity or diversity, and in fact, an apolitical kid who dislikes public protests and the like can have a perfectly fine time at Wesleyan (I know one!) just focused on music and literature, and making nice friends who incidentally were heading off to marches and various when they weren’t on campus.

So again- I think the racial thing is a distraction. If the real issue is that she wants an LAC but doesn’t want a heavily frat/sorority campus- that’s a real thing to seek out. And there are PLENTY of those colleges in America! If the other issue is that she wants friends who do not rely on alcohol to have a good time, there are PLENTY of those colleges where she can find that-- even if there are drunken parties going on elsewhere near campus.

So maybe try again. Post what she wants. Leave the adoption issue out of it. See what suggestions you get. Sift through those.

But two data points for you- there is abundant research that urban campuses have less drinking than rural or suburban campuses (and it sounds like your D is gravitating towards non-urban, correct?) And you may need to stretch your geography a bit in order to find a better fit.

Your D sounds terrific!