<p>Bluebayou - I see your point about district policy and AB/BC, and I agree with you.</p>
<p>
From my son’s feedback from college, I’m beginning to believe that most AP courses are pretty “watered down” as it is. And I’m not refering to the “AP lites”.</p>
<p>To use DS’s HS schedule as an example:</p>
<p>11th- 7 APs
Calc AB
Physics B
English Lang
Chem
Art History
Euro
Spanish Lang</p>
<p>12th- 7 APs
Calc BC
Physics C
English Lit.
Bio
US History
Government
Spanish Lit.</p>
<p>Those are two years of “most rigorous” courseloads by anybody’s definition, but he tells me they were much easier than his four course load at college. Granted, he’s in a rigorous field at a competitive school, but his seven APs/year in HS didn’t come close to real courses in real college.</p>
<p>So I’m starting to suspect that most of these other APs might not be taught at a true college level either.</p>
<p>Conceivably, a HS could teach APUSH over four years, but there is only ONE AP test. There is no ‘AB’ version of APUSH…</p>
<p>Sherpa:</p>
<p>I think it really depends on the college. AP courses at our HS are much more rigorous than the local community college, for example. APs probably are on par for most Cal State colleges. But APs definitely pale in comparison to the courses at the top UCs. Some of the tippy top schools don’t even recognize AP Gov.</p>
<p>I don’t think most of the respected APs are “watered down.” Their material is similar to that of college courses. I think the issue is you need something ridiculous like a 65% on many AP exams to get a 5 because so many unprepared students take AP exams and destroy the curve. On top of that, teachers give exams in class that are just way too easy compared to college exams.</p>
<p>You get a 70 on the AP exam and get a 5 and think you’ve aced the subject. You take a similar test in college and you just got a C-.</p>
<p>Bluebayou, you missed my point. AB is not the predominant class at my school because students are afraid to sign up for BC, but because the school coaches you directly into AB. When you sign up for courses as a sophomore/junior for the following year, they will tell you that if you are continuing in math from pre-calculus you have two options: AP Statistics or AP Calculus AB. They do not even give you the choice of taking BC. This has always puzzled me. The course guide for my county of public schools explicitly states BC as a first year course (with pre-calculus as the prereq) and says that it is the more advanced version of AB. Yet they will never sign you up for it if you ask. Last year was the first time my class had a Calculus BC course in the past ten years, and it had something like 9 students who all took AB before it. And the calculus teacher here sways students away from BC by saying “you just relearn AB” and encourages them to take statistics. </p>
<p>The best math students at my school still end up in AB and never get to take BC. It’s not a second year course to AB. This practice is inane–BC is a first year calculus course. I do not buy the “mathematical skill” excuse for splitting it up. Neither the AB material nor the version of BC schools teach when it follows AB have a large enough curriculum for an entire class. I taught myself the entire AB material over one summer (two-months) and I was pretty busy at that time with a lot of other things. I’m far from being a mathematical genius.</p>
<p>I personally did not take calculus at the school above, as I attend a half-day science/math magnet school and only return to that public school for two afternoon classes. I just know how it works there. My magnet school actually has a similar system–first year calculus they teach all of AB and end up covering most of BC, though they sign you up for the AB exam. In second year calculus they tie up any loose ends in BC and make sure the students are tuned in single-variable and then they begin teaching multivariate. Second year you take the BC exam. I think first year should just be BC and second year be total multivariate, but at least that system is better than the public school alternative. Many students just take the first year sequence, take the BC exam anyway, and then go on to take vector calculus, linear algebra, statistics, etc as a senior. One reason I believe my magnet school (and many others) do it the way they do is that a student gets double the weighted credit for taking both AB and BC, thus rising them in their class rankings at their respective public schools, while they would not receive weighted credit for a dual-enrolled, higher math class with no AP counterpart.</p>
<p>I disagree with you Pancaked. I see nothing wrong with the curves on the AP exams. Even the most trained student will most likely not score something like a 90% on that exam with time constraints. The exams are designed so that strong students score in the 60-70% range, while anything higher is someone who is a master of the subject. </p>
<p>Last year my Physics C: Mechanics class had many strong students by the end of the year. We spent an entire year just on that part of Physics C, used a recommended AP textbook, and had an excellent teacher. We all felt like we failed the exam, probably scoring in the 60’s, but most scored received a 4 or 5. I feel that those scores are right. My classmates know mechanics very well and do not need to retake it in college. A subject like mechanics is so vast that they could throw anything out at you, and I wouldn’t expect anyone to be able to just solve them all off the top of their head in such a limited time. I’m sorry that those exams are just so easy for you.</p>
<p>Don’t underestimate the value of AB. Here’s a description of the Multivariate Calculus course at Yale. Note that you need only AB–albeit a score of 5–as a prerequisite. </p>
<p>*Math 120a and b Multi-variable calculus. Vector functions, mostly in three dimensions; gradient, curl, and divergence; line and surface integrals; the theorems of Gauss, Greeen, and Stokes. Prerequisites: 115 or an AP score of 5 (AB) or 4 or 5 (BC).</p>
<p>My school has a weird math track. If you earn an A in honors Geometry, you go to Honors Algebra II/Trigonometry (I took H Geom as a frosh and am finishing up Alg II/Trig right now). However, if you earn an A in Alg II/Trig (I have an A), you are placed in AP Calc AB for the next year, skipping Pre-Calc. But our school does not offer BC, which I guess is strange; they instead offer “Calculus II” for students who have completed AB. It doesn’t make any sense to me haha. Also the jump from Alg II/Trig to Calc seems scary.</p>
<p>Yeah I just feel wholly unprepared. However, on another thread I saw someone post a list of objectives for an online Pre-Calc class and I had recognized every objective, so maybe I’m good.</p>
<p>If they are actually compressing the typical high school math courses (algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2, precalculus / trigonometry) into three years instead of four years, then they may be appropriate for the good in math students who can learn the math at a quicker pace than typical high school students. On the other hand, if they are leaving out course material, that may leave the students unprepared for more advanced math in college.</p>
<p>My DD13a just completed AP Calc AB/BC. Most students here that take pre cal sophomore year are tracked into AB only for junior year. My D and one other student were recommended for the full AP in one year. She struggled at first because of her lack of trig (the other kid is one of those brilliant math types that just inherently understands any sort of math). We got a great tutor that caught her up and she did well for the remainder of the year, earning an A in the class. I think a students ability to handle the AB/BC combo the same year is definitely related to the math taught in the prerequisite classes. </p>
<p>I know that Vandy will grant 6 hrs credit for a 5 on the exam. UofL’s Spped School will not give credit towards an engineering degree for AP Calc.</p>
<p>Here’s a departure from other posts that indicate many schools encourage both AB and BC:</p>
<p>My D’s school is considering restricting the act of taking both AB and BC. Their rationale is that kids are perfectly capable of going straight from Precalc to AB or to BC. Their premise is that kids who take both are just gaming the system for the extra weighted class (‘double-dipping’). So, now, they’re considering restricting course selection for EITHER AB or BC, but not both. (Or maybe they’ll allow you to take both, but not award the extra point, not sure)</p>
<p>So, even if my D were not ‘gaming the system’, just insecure (unfounded) about her math skills, I wasn’t sure if colleges viewed it the same way as this HS apparently does.</p>
<p>Seems sensible, although counter to the school’s motivation for double-dipping on students’ AP courses and tests taken counts. A student who completes precalculus as a high school sophomore (two years ahead of normal grade level) should be a top student in math who can handle the full content of BC over one year, instead of having to spread it out over two years.</p>
<p>I’m a cynic by nature, and in such policy cases I also look at the budgetary impact of the HS and try to ignore the spin. (Why teach two classes with two teachers when you can teach one class with one teacher?)</p>
<p>Btw: a student can earn another math bonus point by taking AP Stats, correct?</p>
<p>Forcing two-years-ahead-in-math students to take calculus over two years is both wasteful and a disservice to these students, so in this case, even if the decision was purely for cynical budgetary reasons, going straight to BC from precalculus should be the desirable path for such students.</p>
<p>Maybe I’m just bitter because the earliest math track permitted at our school system was Algebra I in 8th grade and would have gladly jumped at the opportunity to an additional year ahead in math, but I agree with those saying you shouldn’t do both AB and BC. If you’re intelligent enough to start taking high school math courses in the 7th grade, two years of ahead of when you’re supposed to, you shouldn’t be taking twice as long to complete what was designed to be a one-year college class. </p>
<p>Although as for whether or not colleges “look down upon” taking both AB and BC, I doubt it - because one, it’s really too commonplace for them to penalize students for it, and two, some schools force students to take the slower AB and BC path. But I still personally don’t think you should take both.</p>
<p>In this were Sophomore or Senior year, the student would have gone for the direct Precalculus to BC route. But this being the Junior year, which is apparently the heaviest of all, the student wants to manage the load better by taking AB first and then BC as Senior. Spreading it out over two years avoids a gap in map.</p>
<p>Apparently BC homework is a couple of hours a night. That combined with APUSH and APLanguage and Literature, AP Music Theory, AP Chemistry, AP Japanese, Physics, PSAT/SAT prep, President, Vice pres, Piano, Hospital volunteer, etc.</p>
<p>The pressure is much lighter Senior year. Perhaps even a good math student would benefit from a better absorption rate…</p>
<p>It seems to me that what’s goofy about this is that the existence of AB and BC does not accommodate people who would benefit from taking calculus over two years, unless the school deviates from the CB curriculum. It doesn’t make much sense (to me) to have people in the same BC class who have come directly from precalc with those who have taken AB.</p>